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Two Ex TI-ers Invest $1B in India's First Analog Fab

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Hillol
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Third World Country
Hillol   4/24/2015 10:28:13 AM
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1. What is total demand of SoC in India?

2. Is it cheaper to import or make it in India?

3. What is the road map?

4. R&D budget?

5. How many new jobs?

 

 

 

harpat
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Re: More loss of US jobs
harpat   3/25/2015 10:35:35 PM
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What you are saying may be true. But this is nothing new. Lots of industries have been lost to foreign countries, from shoes and shirts to cameras, TVs, laptops, memory and many others. The bright side of capitalistic system is it encourages innovation. The dark side is that it looses the business because its foundation is greed. Those ex TIer's may personally benefit at the expense of USA but our system says do what is best for you and not for the state (only commies would say so). So we cannot have our cake and eat it too. American companies have been selling the national treasure of innovation for years for the personal benefit of the top brass (of course he claims, it is for maximimizing shareholder values while getting zillion dollar bonus). There is no shame in selling one's mother if the price is right. 

But even if there was shame in selling one's mother, there is another problem. There are western countries who have similar technologies and are willing to sell their mothers too.

NXP just signed a deal with Chinese company to do a semiconductor joint venture. So if the western civilization is not united in self preservation, they are all going too loose. 

A third problem is the western countries (including the Americas) have personal incomes that are far in excess of third world countries and yet they want open trade. It is not possible to have personal incomes 30 times those in third world but have productivity only 3 to 10 times without loosing businesses. 

Nobody is forcing us to have free trade. But are we willing to make our own shoes and pay $650 for American made shoes rather than $45 for imported shoes.

rvg
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Re: Hope it happens
rvg   2/26/2015 2:18:24 PM
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That's like saying until every single person in a country is well educated or well fed, we won't host the olympics or developa nuke or an IC. Do you realize that nations grow themselves out of poverty? Do you think China had it all before a fab was opened there 25 years ago? I understand and symphatize with the pressures people in advanced economies face due to pressures from a growing third world. However your comments border on the ridiculous.

rvg
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Re: Third World Country
rvg   2/26/2015 2:15:10 PM
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This rant has cut the collective I.Q of this forum in half. Loser-99, you do realize that the US does not have to buy a single IC from that fab for it to be profitable, right? You also realize that plenty of countries would be happy to buy from such a fab, correct? Regarding your concern about water, toilets. gold and the rest, would you be surprised to know that me, my family and all my friends and their families had access to flushable toilets, diapers, a university with an IC lab (including an indoor flushable toilet), a gold wire bonder (wire included, not stolen) etc 30 years ago? How about 70 years ago? Would it surprise you to know that all the issues your cite exist to a greater or lesser extent in China and Taiwan, Phillipines (where most of the packaging and testing is done) and in other developed countries? Have you truly lost it? Remember, this is not a yahoo new board -- keep the conversation sensible and civil. If you don't have anything useful to say, don't post.

Loser99
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Need to invest in birth control not fabs
Loser99   2/18/2015 1:12:04 PM
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Maybe a condom production factory would help things over there more than a semiconductor fab.

 

 

stippu
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Re: Third World Country
stippu   2/18/2015 10:23:30 AM
@Loser99.  Elephants dont rampage cities and neither do tigers eat people. It more like people devouring people - in the sense corruption at different levels.

Poor infrastructure is still a major issue but since the popluation is so huge ( India accounts for a meagre 2.4 percent of the world surface area has 17.5 per cent of the world population as against the US which  accounts for 7.2 per cent of the surface area with only 4.5 per cent of the world population), it is a Herculean task trying to better the standard of living for the entire populace. But efforts are on.. but that is a differnt story..

The point of my article is the setting up a fab. If it comes up, it would certainly be good for India - am sure the quality will be maintained if it set up by professionals who will not compromise. But the million dollar question is when and how is it going to be set up.. India has been talking about it for so long.

No doubt India is a third world country in terms of classification and all that but there are pockets of affluence and silos of IT talent. If it all falls in place, then things could drastically change. 

Loser99
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Re: Hope it happens
Loser99   2/17/2015 7:31:06 PM
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When India ceases to be a third world country then it should have a fab.

 

chipmonk0
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Analog Fab makes a lot more sense for India than CMOS logic
chipmonk0   2/17/2015 2:26:25 PM
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No wonder that the IMBECILE / IGNORANT / INCOMPETENT / INSINCERE poseurs of IESA ( whose members at best have only some limited experience of chip design but NO experience at all in semiconductor device technology or Fabs, yet have no qualms about interfering in Fab decisions ) of B'lore or DEITY at the Electronics Min. in Delhi were CLUELESS about it at their so-called "Vision" Summit 2 weeks ago.

But given the collective IDIOCY, GRANDSTANDING & INTERFERENCE by the IAS and such other non-Technical bureaucrats of India who are allowed to dominate decisionmaking even in complex technical projects, the viability of even an Analog Fab there would be non - trivial.

Nokia's integrated handset factory near Madras, India used to be the largest of its kind outside China. But it had to be shuttered last Nov due to retroactive Tax policy of the Govt. of India. Even the MSIPS subsidy plan of the DEITY is totally unrealistic and based on callous ignorance of the Electronics industry and is dangerously misled by the ignorant idiots of IESA now led by yet another retired IAS.

The only aspect of Electronics Mfg. that the IGNORANT IDIOTS & MEDDLING FOOLS of IESA seem to know are design of digital logic chips, that too just small parts of the IP that are farmed out by large co.s Stateside to their low wage Design centers in India. Yet in spite of their tunnel-vision, the IESA have been bending the ears of the IGNORANT IAS bureaucrats at the Electronics Min. in Delhi and have already set India back by 10 years vis a vis China !

This confluence of the ignorant / arrogant bureaucrats of the Electronics Min. & over - reaching IESA is a true CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES !

Over 80 % of semiconductor consumption in India at present are in systems that get designed and mfr.ed in China ( e,g. Smart Phones ) and are imported in white boxes by Indian trading companies posing as OEMs. Yet the BUFFOONS of DEITY & IESA induced the Indian Govt. to subsidize not just one but 2 CMOS Foundries, ea. costing at least $5 billion ( perhaps 2-3x more before they can become competitive ) w/o first making sure that there would be a downstream demand for them domestically or internationally ! 

The software industry in India could flourish ONLY because it happened under private initiative, under the radar of Govt. Ministries and their interference. But hardware Mfg. cannot be so stealthy or low-budget.

To make Electronics Mfg. take root and succeed in India, its new Govt. must first REMOVE all the ignorant / arrogant / domineering IAS bureaucrats from any role in Technical projects e,g. Electronics design & Mfg.,  REPLACE them with qualified Technical Managers, if necessary recruit Consultants & Leaders from overseas. This needs to be backed by a $ 5 billion Govt. fund to be managed by content Experts ( not the generic MBAs selected by the Min. at present ) to develop integrated eco-system for benchmarking, reverse engr., design and manufacturing ( from system up to low hanging components ) with n eye to export of systems and services. 

The IESA must also be SHUT DOWN. They have already caused enough HARM to India 8 years ago by advising the IT / Electron. Min. to reject a Intel proposal to set up a billion $ plant in India that then went to Vietnam !  

In short India needs to learn from China's recent policies ( somewhat authoritarian but realistic nevertheess ) to boost semiconductor mfg.

Analog_Layout
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More loss of US jobs
Analog_Layout   2/17/2015 2:25:40 PM
This just seems like the continuing saga of "how can we destroy the Technology expertise base in the US along with US jobs"?  At one point and possibly still, the US led th world in Semiconductor manufacture and design.  We began shipping fabs and the jobs they created overseas many years ago.  Some of the last fabs here outside of Intel are Analog fabs.   Now a couple of Ex-TI employees thing that starting a fab in another country is better than starting one in the US.   It just looks to me like the furthering job destruction and dismantling of the expertise food chain that at one time was a model to the world.  

Loser99
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Third World Country
Loser99   2/17/2015 1:10:25 PM
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I would be worried about reliable energy and clean water!  as well as reliable telecommunications.

Indoor plumbing too.  Stuff that India isn't known for.

Plus add in corruption, traffic, bad government. bureaucracy not only from government but from trade groups/competitors.  Tigers eating people, Elephant rampages etc.

They have to have indoor bathrooms too I assume in the fab.  All the gold bonding wire will be stolen to make jewelry.

Theres no way this will happen there.

Who wants a chip that was made using filthy parasite ridden bathwater?

Theres a reason they don't have fabs there, if it was possible it would have already happened.

 

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