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Neo10
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Neo10   5/26/2015 9:39:40 AM
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Well, this may all be good but there is a fundamental conflit of ideology when it comes to living the liberalistic philosophy of which capitalism is am arm. This simply doesn't work with a conrolled society. This is just like the controlled socialsim Russia tried many decades back. 

DMcCunney
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Re: Money vs. politics
DMcCunney   5/23/2015 5:42:29 PM
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@Rick Merritt: I remember the exuberance of the 1980s over Deng Xiaoping's pronouncement that "It is glorious to get rich."

If I recall correctly, it was Deng Xiaoping who grimly amused me in an interview I saw in the Wall Street Journal back then.  Asked about the spread of capitalist economic notions in China, his response was effectively "If it works, it's a triumph of the glorious People's Revolution."  If what worked looked a lot like capitalism to our eyes, no matter.  It was an effort of the Communist Party, spearhead of the glorious People's Revolution, and therefore a Good Communist Thing.  It reminded me of Humpty Dumpty's comments about words meaning what he wanted them to mean in Alice in Wonderland.

I was among the many who thought China's openness to a capitalist democracy, albeit with "Chinese characteristics," would lead to political democracy.

I never thought so.  Capitalism and democracy are seperate things, and you can have one without the other.  China wanted to bootstrap its economy and become a first world power, and did so.  But the Communist Party wanted to retain control, and that precluded what we might think of as democratic government.

Indeed, the Party is rather in the position of trying to ride the tiger, because the very industrialization and economic development they successfully fostered tends to bring notions of openess and democracy along with it.  They face the challenge of being responsive to demands from the Chinese people without ceding meaningful actual control.  I expect to see more democracy in China, but I don't expect it to look anything like what we normally think of as democratic government. 

The model will more likely be the one used by the old PRI in Mexico, which a friend called "Fascism that worked".  The PRI dominated Mexican politics for decades after the revolution that brought Emiliano Zapata to power.  If you were an aspiring politician, you strove to build a power base, and then sell out to the PRI.  The size and composition of your power base determined what you got from the PRI when you sold out.

I don't expect anything that doesn't call itself the Communist Party to run China any time soon.

junko.yoshida
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Re: No Politics Please!...Shhhh!
junko.yoshida   5/22/2015 12:25:55 PM
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@TonyTib, good web address!

Indeed, there are a million gotcha in China, and this looks to be a very practical site. Thanks again.

TonyTib
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Re: No Politics Please!...Shhhh!
TonyTib   5/22/2015 12:01:26 PM
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Junko, Rick: you really should follow the China Law Blog http://www.chinalawblog.com/

For starters, look over their posts on the Internet and China:

http://www.chinalawblog.com/?s=internet


I've been reading them for years, and have learned a lot.

rick merritt
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Re: Money vs. politics
rick merritt   5/22/2015 1:32:21 AM
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@Junko: That's utrageous and under-reported.

There ought to be some real trade talks that play hard ball about letting international Web services in behind the Great Firewall of China.

junko.yoshida
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Re: Centrally Planned Economy
junko.yoshida   5/21/2015 10:53:05 PM
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Hi, Will. Great to see you here. I know you've had a long experience in dealing with Chinese. Your perspectives are much appreciate it.

Especially, when i think about some of the anecdotes you shared here happened in our life time, things have changed a lot.

When you walk around and talk to startup companies in Shenzhen today, you don't even notice today whether you are in Silicon Valley or in China.

The amount of changes and the speed of change, however, are best represented by the Internet companies like Tencent, Alibaba and Xiaomi, today. Compared to just a year ago, I was surprised to see many hardware companies -- both chips and systems -- are so excited about the new "prospect" of selling their products into a market where those Internet companies can take advantage of.

 

junko.yoshida
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Re: No Politics Please!...Shhhh!
junko.yoshida   5/21/2015 10:39:18 PM
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Thanks for taking your time to share your thoughts.

I had expected our readers chiming in to let me know that I shouldn't write anything political at www.eetimes.com.

I disagree.

First, this blog is about the growing power fo Internet giants in China. This is having a major impact in the engineering life in China today. Capital infusion from China's Internet giants are reviving the energy in Shenzhen, especially in the wearable field where Internet companies see the opportunity to push their services directly to wearable devices.

Second, no one (not even an engineer) can live life without being affected by politics. It's time to stop so squeamish about anybody mentioning "democracy" or "communism."

willaz
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Centrally Planned Economy
willaz   5/21/2015 1:25:20 PM
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My first visit to China was in 1981 working with my client Bank of America to explore possible investments in the semiconductor business. All production was centrally planned and everybody wore what westerners call blue or grey "Mao suits," even women. And there was only one western hotel in Beijing.

They had a 100% domestically built semiconductor equipment, designed for home-grown 2" silicon wafers, and one fab I visited was proud of the "cloned" 8080 processor chip they were making.  With 32 candidates on a wafer, they were even happier that they had three adjacent dies that worked.  They were crestfallen when I pointed out that even with 15-cent/hr labor costs and low yields they were uncompetitive in the world market. The central planning called for the fab to have over 500 people assigned, when 50 could do the job. The provencial electronics commisar finally understood and indicated that he might transfer many of the excess workers to his minicomputer factories.  They had also cloned DEC and DataGeneral minicomputers.

When I pointed out that would only make his minicomputer factories less competitive, the commisar finally realiezed that he was trapped by the central planning mechanism. The following year, I met the provencial commisar in San Jose. He was dressed in a western suit.  It was fascinating to watch the semiconductr changes in China over the years.

junko.yoshida
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Re: Money vs. politics
junko.yoshida   5/21/2015 11:53:45 AM
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Rick, those were the better days. Today, we have no Google Search, No Gmail. there is no Google access, period.

In some hotels in China, once in a while, they let us do FB post. But usually no.

No twitter, either. I can see a notification of tweets, but I can't open my twitter. Nor can I post a tweet from here.

Of course, no access to NYTimes, no Reuters.

 

rick merritt
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Money vs. politics
rick merritt   5/21/2015 11:10:37 AM
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I remember the exuberance of the 1980s over Deng Xiaoping's pronouncement that "It is glorious to get rich."

I was among the many who thought China's openness to a capitalist democracy, albeit with "Chinese characteristics," would lead to political democracy. The Tiananmen Massacre showed us horribly how economic openess is not linked to political openness.

Today, it's ironic that amid the exuberance over the success of China's Internet giants there is still widespread Web censorship.

I recall someone who had an office in Hong Kong and Shenzhen told me she worked in Hong Kong on days when she needed to do a lot of Google searches because the searches were so slow when run through the surveillance filters inside China. Ironic that Shenzhen is so highly regarded as the world's factory, yet its hard to do a Google search there.

 

 

 

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