Breaking News
Blog

Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market

NO RATINGS
View Comments: Threaded | Newest First | Oldest First
Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
Bert22306   10/18/2012 6:11:44 PM
NO RATINGS
Not very surprising? This same phenomenon happened decades ago in the US. Why wouldn't it be Japan's turn now? TVs are a mature product segment. And TV makers have been really slow even to upgrade them in a credbile way for Internet access. So even such a seemingly simple way to add value to TVs has been squandered, for whatever reasons. You'd expect the lowest cost manufacturing countries to be the only ones that can continue to produce TVs competitively, under these conditions.

microe
User Rank
Rookie
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
microe   10/18/2012 9:49:40 PM
NO RATINGS
There are so many areas China and Japan can co-operate. It happened before and is happening between China and South Korea. It is really sad for both Japanese and Chinese that things are not moving in the right direction. China suffers although Japan may suffer more due to the down trend she is already in. It is lose-lose between China and Japan. It is surprising why those politicians wanted to do it.

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
DMcCunney   10/20/2012 3:17:32 AM
NO RATINGS
It's actually not a surprise if you look at history. One of the underlying issues for Japan for a *long* time has been an inferiority complex vis its much larger neighbor. Consider the Tale of Genji, considered the first novel and the first major work of Japanese literature. It was written by the Lady Murasaki, a lady in waiting at the imperial court, in the Heian period of Japan around the 1100's. At the time, educated Japanese man all spoke, read, and wrote Chinese. It was left to thwe women to preserve and develop the Japanese language. (And you see the effect on Japanese, as the written form has origins in Chinese ideographs, whan a positional alphabet like the Roman wuld be a better fit for the underlying structure of the language.) And China has not forgotten the Rape of Nanking when the Japanese invaded during WWII. There are long memories and lots of pent-up animosities in the region that will get in the way of the cooperation they really should have, and China and Japan aren't the only ones holding grudges.

WW Thinker
User Rank
Rookie
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
WW Thinker   10/20/2012 4:37:50 AM
NO RATINGS
I am glad to see that you brought out the history. In contrast to how the Germans publicly regretted at the bad things done at WWII, Japan never did that in their heart. Since WWII, Japan government deliberately changed the text books to distort the history to the point that its invasion of China was a good deeds. Worst, USA unilaterally gave the "right to manage an island seized by Japan during before the WWII" to Japan, despite of the potests by the powerless Taiwan and the still-closed China at the time. Chineses in general prefer money than politics. Therefore, the grudges upon Japan is because the ruling politicians in Japan have been trying over the past two centuries to seize stuff from China, worst still, generations of ruling politicians of Japan never really respect China and keep denying the wrongs done!

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
DMcCunney   10/20/2012 6:10:47 AM
NO RATINGS
There was grumbling by some in the US when Microsoft released a version of Encarta sanitized of references to things like the Rape of Nanking to avoid upsetting the Japanese, who steadfastly refuse to admit it, and I have an old friend who is Chinese and a dedicated photographer, who rails about Japanese actions in WWII and won't use Japanese cameras. But Japan is hardly the only offender in the "can't admit it" box. Ask the Turks about genocide against the Armenians. The usual answer will reduce to "It didn't happen, and if it did they're an inferior lifeform who deserved it." *Nobody* likes to admit to things like that. Germany didn't have much choice: it was surrounded by countries it had invaded, and if it wanted to be accepted by the rest of the world it had to own up. Ultimately, I see money as the best hope. I'm in NYC, a block above one of the areas called "Little India". It's full of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi restaurants, grocery stores, clothing stores, and video rental places. It's a mix of people who hate each other and are at the brink of war back home, but over here, the ethos seems to be "We have a common overriding interest: making money! Check your ethnic, sectarian, and religious rivalries at the door or you won't be happy here..."

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
Bert22306   10/20/2012 9:40:07 PM
NO RATINGS
For that matter, what about China wrt Tibet? For some reason, Chinese kids are indoctrinated to believe Tibet is naturally belongs to China. Since when?

krisi
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
krisi   10/18/2012 11:16:04 PM
NO RATINGS
Good point Bert, I am puzzled why I can't have my Internet on my TV...the signal comes from the same coax cable...I just got Apple TV to go over that hurdle but my iPad doesn't play flash so there are limitations...Kris

WW Thinker
User Rank
Rookie
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
WW Thinker   10/20/2012 4:48:31 AM
NO RATINGS
The reason is simple, worldwide, there are a bunch of MSOs (e.g. Comcast, Time Warner, Charter, ..) whose interest is not to serve you, but to make the fat cats of the financial world happy! Unless, these MSOs, the fat cats, and the broadcast stations, the movie studios, the government officials all come to some kind of agreement, you are not going to see in your life time the realization of the truly "pull" model for TV contents! However, you can do something now for the benefit of your next generation to force the shift to the "pull model". Cut off the cable/satellite subscription, hook up one of your idling notebook/PC with HDMI output to your flat-screen TV, buy the indoor HDTV antenna from Costco. Then, you will have a true internet TV which is not wall-gardened and HDTV signals without Comcast re-coding the HD signals to a lesser resolution.

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
DMcCunney   10/20/2012 6:17:44 AM
NO RATINGS
How well that notion will work will depend on where you are and what you watch. I'm in NYC. Forget broadcast channels, regardless of whose antenna you buy. If you want viewable reception, you have cable, or possibly a dish. And most of what I might want to watch isn't on broadcast TV, and requires cable anyway.

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
Bert22306   10/22/2012 8:07:20 PM
NO RATINGS
You might be surprised, if you gave it a try. First point is, though, that in RFenvironments similar to NYC, i.e. just about any major city in Europe, the majority of over the air TV users rely on either a building antenna or their own outdoor antenna, installed professionally on the top of the apartment building. The majority cannot make do with indoor antennas. Another point is that one of our neighbors wrote just about exactly the same words you did, in the community newssheet, when analog TV went off the air. Imagine my surprise, since I had been using over the air digital TV for years, relying only on indoor antennas, the downstairs one sitting inside my fireplace! Digital TV receivers of reasonably recent vintage do a good job with reflected RF. And, of course, there's also lots of TV available now over the Internet, either at the site of the major networks themselves, or in over-the-top sites like Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, heck try even this one: http://wwitv.com/portal.htm You can watch live TV from an enormous number of countries online. Even such nice stuff as BBC World Service. No reason to believe that there's no TV beyond your MSO.

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
DMcCunney   10/24/2012 5:17:59 AM
NO RATINGS
I would be surprised, because I used to *get* broadcast TV. Antenna didn't matter: there was *one* broadcast channel that came through acceptably, because the transmitter was atop the Empire State Building, which is a 5 minute walk from me. Everything else was hash. And while I watch next to no TV, my SO watches a fair amount, and the majority of her fare isn't available broadcast - it's cable only. The strategy wouldn't work for me. If it works for others, a tip of the hat to them.

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
Bert22306   10/20/2012 9:47:52 PM
NO RATINGS
I totally agree with your analysis, ... but hold on. Since when do the CE companies work for the MSOs? Doesn't the "C" in "CE" mean "consumer?" That's why, when they seem totally incompetent in designing a proper Internet "thin client," and when consequently their sales drop, I have very little sympathy. And BTW, your analysis also applies to the inclusion of DTV "tuners." The CE companies kept dragging their feet, not JUST to build in the tuners, but even to sell reasonably effective separate stand-alone tuners. Why? It's obvious. They're in bed with the MSOs. As I've indicated elsewhere, my solution was to ignore so-called "connected TVs," and instead dedicate a PC to the role of Internet STB.

sprite0022
User Rank
Manager
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
sprite0022   10/19/2012 12:23:03 AM
NO RATINGS
dont worry junko, japanese folks are blessed with talents. their skill in making (cheap) cameras is still monopolying. germans, uh... they seems don't know how to make sub $5000 camera.

gasdfnq
User Rank
Rookie
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
gasdfnq   10/19/2012 7:54:47 PM
NO RATINGS
I believe camera and camcorder market share will be stolen by smart phone. I have rarely used camera and camcorder since i have a smart phone.

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
DMcCunney   10/20/2012 3:02:05 AM
NO RATINGS
I suspect Japan's problems here are fundamentally political. From a business standpoint, the Japanese TV makers should exit that line of business. They can't make money, are racking up massive losses, and the current territorial dispute with China simply underscores the issues. (I question whether the drop in sales in China is material to the losses: if you aren't making money on a product, and may be losing money on each sale, selling less may be a Good Thing.) The problem is that actually getting *out* of the TV business will require major layoffs, yet more expenses to write off the remaining value of the TV business, and a rather serious loss of face for "Japan, Inc." I think whether this happens will be a government decision, and the question is whether this is a step the Japanese government is capable of taking. Making the admission "We can't compete in TV, and should cut our losses and stop trying." will come hard for all concerned. (I also wonder what the Japanese government *thought* would happen when they asserted control over the disputed islands, and whether the strength of the Chinese reaction was an unpleasant surprise.)

de_la_rosa
User Rank
Rookie
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
de_la_rosa   10/20/2012 8:52:40 PM
NO RATINGS
LG and Samsung TV quality far exceeds any other brand. No need to discuss politics; the previous statement is the sole reason for other brands troubles.

klieber
User Rank
Rookie
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
klieber   10/20/2012 9:48:20 PM
NO RATINGS
It is indeed a very difficult decision for the Japanese brands. To abandon the China market is to give up the huge market to local brands and others. It seems the tactics of foreign brands in China has always been to charge high prices because the rich in China increasingly can afford them. But this puts the foreign brands in a box of small sales numbers while local brands fight for the low price market, but with huge volumes. Take the camera market for example, the Japanese brands dominate by being vertically integrated but small volume. The chinese have however gotten into the volume optical market of the cellphones and computer vision areas and the CMOS chips are the newer technology. So the Japanese camera makers are shut out of the huge volume, high quality, smaller and less expensive area. Sunny for example sells these opto components to everybody; Samsung, Toshiba, ZTE, Foxconn. CMOS will get better and better. As long as the reality of the components are on the side of Chinese, Japan will slowly lose out. Another industry going. China did not start this latest dispute but once started, Noda thought China can be finessed like previous times. All political parties are getting hawkish and so he went along. Now they did not anticipate the hurt would be this much.

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: Yoshida in China: Time for Japan to exit TV market
DMcCunney   10/25/2012 5:13:51 AM
NO RATINGS
@kleiber: "China did not start this latest dispute but once started, Noda thought China can be finessed like previous times. All political parties are getting hawkish and so he went along. Now they did not anticipate the hurt would be this much." Japan sounds much the same as the US in this. One of the problems for the US has historically been that foreign policy decisions are made based on domestic political concerns. Someone wants to keep voters happy, says what the voters want to hear, does what they think the voters will approve of, and gets a surprise when it blows up overseas. It sounds like the Japanese policy makers involved never seriously thought about what China might do - only about what the Japanese voters would think. Oops.

August Cartoon Caption Winner!
August Cartoon Caption Winner!
"All the King's horses and all the KIng's men gave up on Humpty, so they handed the problem off to Engineering."
5 comments
Top Comments of the Week
Like Us on Facebook

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed
Flash Poll
Radio
LATEST ARCHIVED BROADCAST
David Patterson, known for his pioneering research that led to RAID, clusters and more, is part of a team at UC Berkeley that recently made its RISC-V processor architecture an open source hardware offering. We talk with Patterson and one of his colleagues behind the effort about the opportunities they see, what new kinds of designs they hope to enable and what it means for today’s commercial processor giants such as Intel, ARM and Imagination Technologies.
Navigate to Related Links