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Getting Started With the DipTrace PCB Design Tool

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Max The Magnificent
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Very useful
Max The Magnificent   12/6/2013 2:29:01 PM
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Hi Adam -- this is tremendously useful stuff -- I can't wait to see your similar treatments of the other free PCB tools, including DesignSpark PCB and Eagle PCB -- this is going to help a lot of hobbyists and small companies make a decision.

 

Aeroengineer
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Re: Very useful
Aeroengineer   12/6/2013 2:31:31 PM
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I am working through Design Spark PCB right now for a set of breakout boards.  I already have a list of things that are things that I like and things that I think can be improved.

zeeglen
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Re: Very useful
zeeglen   12/6/2013 6:44:01 PM
Currently struggling with learning KiCad. 

Last time I did a PCB layout was with blue and red tape on mylar, ever since there has always been a CAD expert that I could sit down with to do the layout.  I spec'd the trace and dielectric dimensions for impedance control, the PCB layout guru did the work. I inspected the layout files and asked for minor changes if needed.  Between the both of us we got things done.

Now things have changed.  A couple weeks ago I started to learn KiCAD, then after 2 days got sidetracked into a "more important" project, so saved all the files to my thumb drive to learn later.  Today is a Texas Work-at-Home Ice Day, and to start I could not even get my saved files to work.  With help from the local home IT guru (my stepson) we figured out that the files had to first be loaded into the Programs... folder.

Then I could not save the reworked schematic.  No clues, no tips, no warnings, the only indication that the file was not saved was a peek into that folder that showed the file was still dated 20Nov2013.  ARRGGHH!

Again the local IT guru stepson to the rescue.  He figured out that I needed to open the KiCAD as administrator.

Why does this wonderful software not give one clues as to what is wrong when something does not work? It would have been a no-brainer for a popup to say something like "File not saved.  You need to save as an administrator.  To be an administrator go to ... etc"

And while on this rant, is there no way simple things like schematic capture cannot be standardized?  It is one thing to "unlearn" previous habits, but when using things like LTspice (yes analogspiceman, spelled it right), then TinyCAD, and now KiCAD all the mouse clicks are totally different for each. It is no longer a simple "move the object", it has now become "remember what application you are using and choose from the applicable mouse click menu".  Grrrrr!



sa_penguin
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Re: Very useful
sa_penguin   12/6/2013 8:18:14 PM
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KiCAD works for me, but my requirements are a little different to most.

First, I need software that can run off a USB stick, ie. a "Portable App". This allows me to use other people's machines, without loading their systems.

Second:when I'm at home, I have a Mac. I don't have a virtual machine (yet) so any software needs to have a Mac version. If I had a Windows PC, I would  install the full Windows version of KiCAD, but until then...

With this combination, I've managed to do stuff at work (during lunch break) and at home. Nothing spectacular, just a PMOD compatible calculator keypad. Once I shrink it under 10cm wide I'll be getting boards made.

Aeroengineer
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Re: Very useful
Aeroengineer   12/6/2013 9:52:38 PM
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Thanks for the information on KiCAD.  That is one that I am watching.  In its current incarnation, it does not quite meet my 6 requirements that I outlined in my first story, but I have seen that there are some pretty major upgrades in the pipe. 

 

I too am a big believer in programs making it easy for the user.  Some complaing and call this bloat, but if I can do something in an hour in one program that in another would take me four, I really would not care if the first program were a gig larger install.  Storage space is cheap these days.  Even in tablets.  Tomorrow I have a Dell Venue 8 Pro 64GB tablet coming.  I am going to do a review of it from the perspective of using it as a mobile platform for coding and doing circuit design stuff.

Rcurl
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Re: Very useful
Rcurl   12/6/2013 10:20:07 PM
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I had been using Circuitmaker 2000, but finally outgrew it's capabilities.  When it was time to graduate to a more capable CAD system, we evaluated half a dozen of them and Diptrace came out to be the clear winner for our needs.  For the past four years I have used Diptrace almost every day.  I find it to be intuitive and easy to learn.  I had always been skeptical of autorouters, and in the past I tended to hand route all but the most complex boards, but the autorouter in Diptrace changed my mind. Yes- I still have to do a lot of cleanup after autorouting, but it has proven to be a tremendous timesaver.   

Also, I'd like to mention that when I find a bug or have a problem with a feature, I can ask a question on their forum and often get a response (and resolution) from the authors of the software within hours.

Thanks for this article, Adam.  

Aeroengineer
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Re: Very useful
Aeroengineer   12/6/2013 10:23:12 PM
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Rcurl,

Thanks for adding your experience to the comments.  It is nice to hear that you ue the autorouter in a similar fashion as I do.  What you say about their forum has also been nice.  I have found a lot of the "hidden" features mentioned in the forum.  Things like using F10 for moving text and such.

elizabethsimon
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Re: Very useful
elizabethsimon   12/10/2013 11:56:38 AM
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I've been using DipTrace for a few months.  I've upgraded to their "Standard" version because I quickly ran into the pin limitations of the free version. I'm not sure that I completly agree with you about the intuitiveness of the interface but that may be because I'm migrating from another program with a different UI and I have to use an enterprise level program at work with yet a third UI. I do like the forums and have found answers to all my questions in there.

By the way, I've tried to import from PADS but the problem I have is that the version of PADS I have is so old that DipTrace doesn't recognize the libraries. I was able to import a very simple file that used standard library parts though...

 

Aeroengineer
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Re: Very useful
Aeroengineer   12/11/2013 11:16:56 AM
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Elizabeth,

 

I consider any program that I can get a sucessful result without having to read a bunch of manuals or watch a few youtube videos an intuitive program, though, I should probably throw out that I am the type of person that is willing to push a button just to see what it does.  So I usually spend some time "breaking" in a new program.  If it does not break, then it was successful ;)

 

The pin limitations could be a bigger problem for some people.  The nice thing is that their upgrade plans are not too expensive.

elizabethsimon
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Re: Very useful
elizabethsimon   12/11/2013 1:08:11 PM
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Yes, they're upgrade plans are quite reasonable and I like that you can just pay the price difference to go to the next level. Also, you can use the free version as a viewer for designs that exceed the pin limitations. This was useful on a recent project where I needed to get feedback from someone off site. I could just email him the files and he could measure clearances and check part positions.

 

zeeglen
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Re: Very useful
zeeglen   12/7/2013 1:51:32 PM
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I am guessing your "runner-up" rating for KiCAD (from first blog) is due to the lack of a decent footprint wizard?  Have not progressed to that stage yet, but already am finding the hunt through the footprint libraries tedious.  And then to verify the dimensions of the library footprint one must go to the layout stage (even with schematic not yet completed) to analyze the chosen footprint dimensions to be sure it is really the one you want.

The only reason I chose KiCAD as my first PCB tool learning experience was because a colleague has used it, and might be able to assist me through the learning curve.

Your series on these PCB layout tools is going to be very educational.  Thank you.

Aeroengineer
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Re: Very useful
Aeroengineer   12/7/2013 2:11:52 PM
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Zeeglen,

 

You are correct about why I have KiCAD in the runner up section.  THough, it is something that I am following closely.  I have been seeing signs that there is a major update in the works.  With some of the things that they are looking to do, it could easily put it ahead of the feature offerings of the other systems.

 

Also thanks for taking the time to read and think about the articles.  It is really appreciated.  If there is something that you feel that I have missed, please let me know and I will go back and take a closer look.

 

Adam

TonyTib
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Re: Very useful -- a bit on libraries
TonyTib   12/10/2013 12:33:45 PM
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IIRC, Sparkfun had a comment about PCB libraries: they always make their own, because they had been burned more than once by parts created by someone else that had wrong footprints.

Also, different people prefer different styles for the schematic part of the part.


One plus of my 3D approach at work (I design the PCB, our ME models it in SolidWorks using STEP/IGES models from the mfg -- note most components are connectors which have mfg models) is that it provides an independent check on my footprints.

Aeroengineer
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Re: Very useful -- a bit on libraries
Aeroengineer   12/11/2013 11:20:44 AM
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I love SolidWorks.  I usually though would just model the part up in SW as well and save it out to the DipTrace file format that they like.  It is a useless file format, but people seem to like it because it is trendy on the web.  STEP214 would be a much better choice as it is supported across almost all MCAD programs.  STEP is harder to impliment as it supports much higher levels of complexity, but to me if you are going to charge almost $1000 for the paid version, at least that version should support this standard 3D file format.

Cylon0
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Using Diptrace for almost a year
Cylon0   12/6/2013 2:32:33 PM
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Using Diptrace for almost a year....

already. For the price it's fine. It has some minor negatives, like those mentioned; however, it gets the job done.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Using Diptrace for almost a year
Max The Magnificent   12/6/2013 2:40:35 PM
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@Cylon0: It has some minor negatives, like those mentioned; however, it gets the job done.

Great -- thanks for providing feedback -- a lot of folks read these articles and say to themselves "I agree with that" or "I don't agree with that" or "He/she should have mentoned..." but then they wander off and do something else without realizing that just saying "I agree" can be incredibly valuable to other readers...

Aeroengineer
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Re: Using Diptrace for almost a year
Aeroengineer   12/6/2013 2:46:11 PM
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This is so very true Max.  It is interesting to read through the the reviews of a product on Amazon.  There are times that you can tell that the people that are satisfied with the product have not come back to post about it, and all you are left with are reviews of not actually the product itself, but how the delivery man dumped it in a a bunch or water and despite this the part still worked.  Yet they will still rank it 1 star.

antennahead
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PCB Elegance
antennahead   12/6/2013 6:00:50 PM
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I remember your original article- have you evaluated PCB Elegance?

 

Recently released to free use, it is loosely based on Mentor graphics and is actually quite good.  Of course, all such tools have their idiosyncracies, but I've done some pretty impressive things with PCB Elegance.

 

Free- source code available as well.  I hope it becomes an open source project.

Aeroengineer
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Re: PCB Elegance
Aeroengineer   12/6/2013 6:05:12 PM
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I have not heard of that one.  I did a very quick (a 30 second scan of a Google search) and I did not find a link to the site that is responsible for maintaining the code.  I found a few places to download it.  Can you point me towards the actual website of the group?

antennahead
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Re: PCB Elegance
antennahead   12/9/2013 12:29:04 PM
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Sorry for the delayed follow up.

The author of PCB Elegance is Herman Morsink.  He lives in the Netherlands.  He developed PCB Elegance for about 12 years, and apparently decided to move on to something else.

Previously, his web site was merco.nl, and pcbelegance.com.

Before shutting down those sites, he annouced release of the source code, and also removed the constraints on the full version, thereby making it freeware.

The full/free version can be found at:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/PCB-Elegance.shtml

there are still many links on the internet for the trial version- make sure you get the full version.

PCB Elegance has some really handy features like a nice SMT geometry wizard, and import/export of DXF and bitmap images.

It is very light weight (only 10 MB download) and runs pretty fast.  My biggest complaint about it is that the area fill tool isn't great (it works though).

So, I don't see that Mr. Morsink put the code anywhere else besides his own site, but at least the program is available.

Aeroengineer
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Re: PCB Elegance
Aeroengineer   12/9/2013 4:56:06 PM
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Thanks for the update, I will take a look.

_hm
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Time involved
_hm   12/7/2013 7:48:14 AM
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To beign a new project these free tools looks attractive. However, soon one gets entangled in limitations and very valuable time is lost. I had similar experience and I eventually got Eagle from element14 and it worked very good.

elizabethsimon
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Problems with board revision
elizabethsimon   1/15/2014 2:47:40 PM
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Just thought I'd give an update on my DipTrace experience now that I'm modifying the design that I previously did. I ran into the following problems in doing the update.

"sticky" net names when disconnecting and connecting "netports"

no options given (and NO warning) when merging nets.

 

For this change I had to create an isolated ground so I wanted some of the pins on the GND net to connect to the new ISOGND net. I disconnected the GND "netport" and connected up the new ISOGND "nteport" to find that the pins were still connected to GND. I finally had to delete the GND nets from the pins I wanted to change over and create new connections to ISOGND. In my opinion this was more of a pain than it needed to be.

The other thing that happened is that I removed a diode and connected the two nets. DipTrace didn't give me a choice as to what the new net name would be or any warning that I was connecting two named nets.

Both of these problems resulted in a net having a different name from the attached "netport" . I also rediscovered that you have to manually name the net even after you attach the "netport"...

Also, the trace editing capibility is not as good as I'd like. But then I'm used to a higher-end system...

I'm interested in finding out more about the other free/low-cost options.

 

 

Aeroengineer
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Re: Problems with board revision
Aeroengineer   1/18/2014 2:02:11 PM
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Thanks for the update!  I saw on their website that they have a beta release coming out that adds STEP/IGES functionality.  I am sure that it has a few other things.  I will take a look at it and see what comes of it.

 

I have also been playing with DesignSpark PCB.  They too have a new version coming out that I will need to check out.

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