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Uber Crash Exposes V2X Politics

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Frank Tu
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Potholes
Frank Tu   4/4/2017 12:54:48 PM
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Even today, they can't keep cars from "undue acceleration", driving themselves into the lake, randomly firing off airbags (or not when necessary), or cheating on their emissions tests.  Who really thinks that self-driving cars are practical, possible, affordable, safe, or fit in the automotive-critical society that has evolved over the last 100+ years?  Really?!

V2X.  The city, state, and Fed highway system can't keep up with the $ or work needed to fill potholes, repair guardrails, or widen roads.  Not anywhere.  I don't remember: is California basically broke?  What city, county, or state has the funds to line highways, thoroughfares, and city streets with cameras or sensors that are all beautifully singing together so that every make and model of car (mfrd after 2023) is aware of the upcoming actions of every other within half a mile?  Oh, in 5 or 10 years all that technology will need an upgrade/retrofit.  Again, where's the money coming from? 

Auto OEMs are all for V2X?  Shocking.  That means they will "have" to put lots of electronics in every car they build and charge the poor customer 10x the reasonable price to have it.  A Nav system on the street costs less than $100.  Built into your new automobile that will set you back $1000 - if you can get it without some bundle. [I believe it is proper to NOT have a space between the $ and the number, Mr. Hipps]

In a perfect world where you were starting from scratch, maybe this would eventually be possible.  But in a perfect (or even rational) world, humans wouldn't drink, wouldn't smoke, would drive politely, and wouldn't be distracted talking to passengers, playing with phones, slapping at unruly kids, or dancing to the radio.  And are we really going to give that all up and turn ourselves over to the machines? 

Hopefully, Trump does kill this one.

ralphhipps
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typos
ralphhipps   4/1/2017 5:33:58 PM
Junko,

Since this is a technical publication, I would assume you folks would want to make sure you're properly using engineering units in your articles.

This is incorrect, no space between number and unit:

"... 5.9GHz deployments in countries like Australia and Singapore, the ITS Corridor in Europe, and the 700MHz..."

correct:

"... United States allocated 75 MHz of spectrum in the 5.9 GHz band to be used by V2X."

if you have Qs there's an IEEE spec for this.

R.

 

Bert22306
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Re: V2X May Not Have Helped
Bert22306   3/31/2017 4:13:15 PM
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I continue to believe that as long as other cars on the road are driven manually, and as long as V2X comms do not exist ubiquitously, autonomous driving can work, but it won't be substantially safer than manual driving. Somewhat safer, yes, because the processors won't be busy texting or drinking hot coffee while driving, and because sensors can look all around much better than humans do. But using only on-board sensors will still be a limiting factor.

The other point to make is that the speed of 38 mph, through this congested intersection, seems excessive. But that's a detail of tweaking the alogrithm. Not a broad indictment of autonomous driving. Surely, no one can believe that excessive speeds through intersections are unavoidable, with autonomous driving algorithms.

lindalarson
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Re: V2X May Not Have Helped
lindalarson   3/31/2017 1:10:31 PM
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In the use of V2V in the CR-V and blindspots, V2V would be key in crash avoidance.

As for the Volvo, also using V2V with the vehicles stopped in the left and mid southbound lanes on a green light, could have alerted to Volvo to use greater caution as they were not proceeding as expected thru an intersection on a green light (V2I). In the V/H2I argument its curious to note that the CR-V driver picked up on the 5 seconds left in the crosswalk. 

junko.yoshida
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Re: V2X May Not Have Helped
junko.yoshida   3/30/2017 6:49:22 PM
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Thanks, HankWalker. Yes, we just posted our own analysis on the Police Report.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1331542

 

HankWalker
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V2X May Not Have Helped
HankWalker   3/30/2017 4:11:27 PM
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The accident situation was reported as this: the Uber Volvo was in the curb lane entering an intersection as the light turned yellow, going 38 mph in a 40 mph zone. The left two lanes were full of stopped traffic (due to congestion on the other side of the intersection). The CR-V driver was attempting to turn left. It turned in front of the two stopped lanes of traffic, thinking she could turn left as the light was yellow, and did not see the Volvo coming in the curb lane until too late. V2X might have informed the Volvo of the CR-V trying to turn left, but it would have had very little warning that the CR-V was going to try and make the turn, rather than wait a moment until the light was turning red. An unsafe turn on the part of the CR-V, but one that all of us see on a regular basis.

In Pittsburgh there is the notion of the Pittsburgh Lefthand Turn. On a two-lane city street without left turn lanes, if the first car at a red light wants to turn left, it can go first when the light turns green, ahead of oncoming traffic, if it is quick about it. Totally illegal. Even police do it. If you don't do it, drivers will honk. Let the autonomous car deal with "rules of the road" like this.

 

sixscrews
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Get a horse
sixscrews   3/29/2017 4:59:17 PM
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V2V - huh?

How about horse to horse?

wb

anon9303122
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If Everything Worked Perfectly
anon9303122   3/29/2017 11:51:56 AM
For this to work there are several critical things that have to happen first.

1.  Self-driving vehicles have to be capable of self driving in all condition and on all roads authorized for self-driving vehicles.  Sensor systems and processing systems will have to have sufficient redundancy to prevent the blue screen of death, literally. Think about what goes into the Autoland system for commercial aircraft.  Now multiply that by 300 million vehicles.  Oh, that's right, there won't be any more personally owned vehicles unless you're a member of Congress.  Don't ask me what you're going to do when you want your vehicle to take you camping in the back country.

2.  Self driving vehicles can be the only vehicles on the road.  No bicycles, pedestrians or anything that has a mind of its own and is not controlled by V2V will be permitted on the roadways.  Those non-V2V entities can act erratically and thus cause crashes.

3.  Humans cannot override the V2V and vehicle control systems. Sorry, you just have to hang on for the ride.

In other words, our grandchildren won't see this in its full incarnation in their lifetimes.  There will be any number of driver assist technologies rolled out (as they have already) but for many practical and economic reasons, totally autonomous vehicles are very, very unlikely to happen on a large scale for many, many decades. 

Even George Jetson drove his own vehicle.

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