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Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung and You

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realjjj
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Re: ....
realjjj   7/18/2017 3:48:43 PM
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"There's not really anything new going on," Mollenkopf said speaking at the Brainstorm Tech conference in Aspen. About the Apple dispute, he explained "those things tend to get to resolved out of court and there's no reason why I wouldn't expect that to be the case here."  http://fortune.com/2017/07/17/qualcomm-apple-lawsuit/

Milan
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Really a problem for Apple ?
Milan   7/10/2017 6:18:03 AM
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Will this case really impact Apple's economic affairs? I am not sure...

realjjj
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Re: ....
realjjj   7/7/2017 5:23:26 PM
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Apple has escalated since the initial complaint and they are asking for their money back. https://www.scribd.com/document/351792817/17-06-20-Apple-s-Amended-Complaint-Against-Qualcomm#from_embed

Intel can't compete in phones they have shown that already and they don't like the margins and ASPs. The high end volumes are very limited with Apple, Samsung and Huawei using their own internal solutions and there isn't much of the market left so they would have to compete in the mainstream but that's not good enough for them.

Doug_S
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Doug_S   7/7/2017 4:58:09 PM
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Not sure if Qualcomm would have to pay back from previous years. Companies in a strong negotiating position like they are could put a clause in the contract that prevents clawback even if patents are invalidated etc.

I think Apple's plan all along has been that once they convert fully to Intel's modem they'll license the IP rather than buying the chips, and build it into their SoC. They probably want to take over the software end, as it fits in with their security/privacy angle to not let someone else have control (i.e. rumors of Qualcomm having backdoors for the NSA to remotely activate a phone to act as a bug without any visible indication)

Intel's modem may be discrete now, but they have their own SoC designs they could include with it - either trying again to get Android OEMs on board with x86 or admitting defeat and including ARM cores. Ones with x86 could be interesting for the enterprise market to run Windows apps via Continuum.

realjjj
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realjjj   7/7/2017 4:49:08 PM
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Never said they are looking for a quiet settlement, said that they have to settle, they can't afford not to.

For the devices shipped in 2016 , Qualcomm got payed about 8 billion and at very high margins- as an example, in Q1 this year for devices shipped in Q4 - Revenue $2,249M  , EBT $1,959M. They are in the wrong on many accounts but to simplify it, they could lose the majority of that revenue and be forced to pay back a lot of the past revenue from previous years- to all licensees not just Apple. That's tens of billions and tens more in lost revenue going forward. They also lose on the chip side as they would be forced to license SEP to others. On top of that they might not be able to charge for both patents and chips, has to be either one or the other and that's another pile of money. Qualcomm has to settle.

I don't know about the timeline for this new development but aside for leverage, this might be aimed at accelerating the timing of a settlement , delays are in Apple's favor given Qualcomm's disputes with the FCC and the S Korea regulator.

Intel is irrelevant for the overall industry, nobody else uses a discrete modem and Apple is crazy if they keep doing it for long as they would save a lot with their own.

Qualcomm using non-SEP is because they can't get a ban with SEP (the administration would likely veto it just like the previous administration did a few years ago) and trying to leverage SEP here would be against their interests as Qualcomm would have to offer FRAND, something they refuse to do. It's also a way to show that their other patents have value and dangle that in front of everyone but at the end of the day, they can't afford not to settle.

rick merritt
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Re: ....
rick merritt   7/7/2017 4:33:43 PM
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How ironic that Intel which lords it over the x86 may be the biggest winner if Apple and the courts rein in Qualcomm which has dominated mobile patents!

Doug_S
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Doug_S   7/7/2017 3:13:11 PM
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I don't see Qualcomm settling. With this latest suit they've expanded the dispute beyond FRAND patents and beyond cellular, which doesn't seem like the act of a company who is looking for a quiet settlement. If they've learned anything watching the multiple Apple/Samsung battles over the years, they should know Apple is not afraid to fight things out in court! Apple undoubtedly holds similar broad patents for CPU and SoC design that Qualcomm's Snapdragon SoCs probably violate - because the USPTO awards such broad patents it is impossible to design around some of them. I expect Apple to return fire before long.

With stalemate the most likely outcome in the new "your stuff violates our non-FRAND patents" front Qualcomm just opened, it goes back to FRAND where Qualcomm's pricing policy charging a percentage of the phone's total cost has already been rejected by courts in multiple countries in previous cases. I agree with you that things don't look good for them, but I think they know they have no choice but to try and defend their cash cow. It is telling that even Apple apparently feared taking on Qualcomm until they had a backup plan ready in the form of Intel's cellular, so it is no wonder all the Android OEMs have been afraid to do so.

I think restricting the attempted import ban to only iPhones using Intel's cellular is as much a shot at Intel as Apple. Apple has basically funded the revival of Intel's cellular business, and as CDMA 3G becomes less important in the US the greater Verizon and Sprint's LTE coverage gets, the bigger threat Intel is to Qualcomm's core business. Qualcomm's treatment of phone OEMs over the years has won them few friends, and they would welcome an alternative from a company like Intel.

realjjj
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....
realjjj   7/7/2017 2:33:30 PM
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Qualcomm has to settle, it can't afford a court ruling in Apple's favor. This new move is aimed at gaining leverage, that's the most they can do but they are in the wrong and if they don't settle, it is big trouble. It is funny though that they only want to ban device with Intel's modem. Wonder if Apple will distance itself from NXP.

About NAND and DRAM, maybe it would be better to always aim for a mild undersupply, something always goes wrong in the world and pushes the industry too far into oversupply. A lot of CAPEX might be needed to keep bit growth at expected levels as scaling is lacking a bit nowadays. All in all maybe SCM fills the gap and high prices for DRAM and NAND will play in its favor in the early stages.

 

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