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Fired Googler: Hoist with His Own Canard

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Paul98
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Paul98   9/22/2017 3:07:14 PM
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malle95652
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malle95652   9/22/2017 1:23:50 PM
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darkducobu
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Re: Should all people that agree with him be fired too?
darkducobu   9/3/2017 1:32:04 AM
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Difficult to say exactly the border of intellectual property of a subject realized in a personal or professional capacity. Personally, when I am at my office, does it happen to me as much to think about private things and in this context as long as I do not write anything that remains private ?

handypixel
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great article
handypixel   8/28/2017 3:38:12 PM
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 Men in engineering who don't feel a passion for it stay in it, because they are usually primary earners and don't feel they can become journalists even if that's what interests them.  Secondary-earner women who don't feel a passion often just quit and take less or no pay. 

tertip
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re: Fired Google logo design
tertip   8/27/2017 2:02:46 PM
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From my perspective, things like politics, religion, and personal points of view (esp. on touchy subjects) just don't belong in the workplace, unless just merely discussed one on one with some of your close mates.

Bert22306
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Re: Hilarious title - Good Commentary
Bert22306   8/18/2017 5:34:08 PM
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Junko, while it possible that a workplace with a majority of men is "hostile" to women, as you say, this has never been my experience (I hear you ask, "how would you know?"). As a matter of fact, if women where I work have ever had serious problems with other co-workers, again in my experience, the problem other co-worker was a woman too! More than once. I find it hard to  believe that my experience is so foreign to everyone else's.

But more importantly, the main reason I keep trotting out the example of veterinary medicine is that it fairly well debunks all of the these convenient excuses. Veterinary doctors, and students, a few short decades ago, were also predominantly men. Now they are somewhere north of 80 percent women. How can this be?

All of the "safe excuses," you know, the conjecturing that will not get anyone in trouble, to explain this state of affairs in the engineering profession, somehow fails to materialize in the vet medicine profession? As a matter of fact, even in human medicine, this is becoming the reality. How can this be?

And too, does anyone worry that the medical profession is becoming "hostile" to men? Come now. Nobody could care less about such excuses.

There is nothing chiseled in stone that says that removing barriers to entry must create an evenly proportioned workforce, in any given discipline. Talk about speculation. That idea is speculation. That false premise is applied religiously in certain fields, but strangely enough, not in others.

spike_johan
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Re: The three points I agree with in your post
spike_johan   8/18/2017 5:17:36 PM
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@Wolf00

You make some good points. However, I still take unbrage with his personal project - company sponsored or not - being wrapped around the production of a manifesto.

And yes, the group w/i the company the company DID request team feedback but I would surmise that feedback - any feedback - should have been sent only to the team but instead somehow found its way to get copied to what appears the entirety of the company; not to mention the world.

Last, from my perspective, things like politics, religion, and personal points of view (esp. on touchy subjects) just don't belong in the workplace, unless just merely discussed one on one with some of your close mates.

A workplace is a workplace; it's as simple as that. Not a personal media ideological distribution platform.

wolf00
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Re: The three points I agree with in your post
wolf00   8/18/2017 2:26:12 PM
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Just a quickie.

"First, Mr. Damore should not have used company time nor company resources to write and publish a personal manifesto."

This sentiment was also expressed previously. I have three observations on this. First, Google encourages its employees to spend a fraction of work time on non-task-related stuff of their choice. Further, one could reasonably argue that the subjet of the dissertation WAS directly work related, Finally, Google's rationale for firing him never mentioned that as a reason seemingly implying agreement with my two former points.

junko.yoshida
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Re: Hilarious title - Good Commentary
junko.yoshida   8/18/2017 12:36:39 PM
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@TonyTib, thanks for the links.

I read the blog. A good blog -- as she lays out her own experience and come to her own conclusion. 

One thing that did resonate with me is the following passage in her blog [highlight is mine]:

Well, Damore's analysis leans very heavily on the biological explanations, and as persuasive as I find them, I also know that the story is more complicated than that. Sexism is a process, not a level. I think it's probably true that my firm was mostly male because mostly men were interested in doing that kind of work at that level. But as my story also suggests, when a field is mostly guys, it's going to feel less than perfectly comfortable for women unless some pretty heroic efforts are made to counteract all that free-floating testosterone. That may retard both women's career prospects and their interest in joining that field in the first place.


I think we can debate the merit (or non-merit) of the affirmative action, how Google wronged Damore, and the left-leaning mono-culture at Google. We all have different opinions, and I've heard from you all loud and clear.  

But McArdle's blog adds another dimension: the work place environment can be hostile to women, and that's not the justification for why women are not fit for engineering.

Evariste
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Re: Hilarious title - Good Commentary
Evariste   8/17/2017 4:04:24 PM
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The strange part in McArdle's article is that not only does she not identify with her coworkers' passion in engineering, but she is openly hostile toward it, saying that she would never "blow" a weekend working on something technical.  I'm sure many journalists (her current occupation) spend time on the weekend working on their never-to-be-published  novels, and I wouldn't call that "blowing" a weekend.  She also demonstrates the secondary-earner issue.  I'm guessing that since she says she worked for five years without pay that she is not the primary earner.  Men in engineering who don't feel a passion for it stay in it, because they are usually primary earners and don't feel they can become journalists even if that's what interests them.  Secondary-earner women who don't feel a passion often just quit and take less or no pay. 

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