Breaking News
SmartEnergy Designline Blog

Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?

NO RATINGS
View Comments: Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
<<   <   Page 2 / 6   >   >>
Aravind2781
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
Aravind2781   3/4/2010 3:17:00 PM
NO RATINGS
Venus as a planet is a proof that some of you are asking about. It has high amounts of Carbon Di oxide and it is the hottest planet in the solar system. Earths atmosphere is lot more complex and is therefore not an apples to apples comparison. But, please dont think that the causality of global warming due to CO2. Also, noise is an inherent part of any experiemtn, obviously one with such a large scale. If Bill has measured any electronic devices he will definitely have noticed the differences among supposedly similar devices. It is accepted without question that some of the data is noise based on what we expect out of theory. Why cant the same be pplied towards climate science.. yeah I said science...

frankmlinar
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
frankmlinar   3/4/2010 12:32:40 PM
NO RATINGS
This article is deliberately vague and misleading. For the life of me I cannot figure out how anyone can consider global warming as speculation. There is simply too much data describing it. There are too many experiments predicting its consequences and sources. To hide behind narrow attempts at defining a single word is irresponsible.

Inspector13
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
Inspector13   3/3/2010 8:56:01 AM
NO RATINGS
I agree with this viewpoint. What I find inexcusable about the whole issue is that politicians jump on this, and other fashionable bandwagons, to enhance their credibility. At present, in the UK, this is leading to the implementation of more rules and regulations for all of us and is generating a new industry sector, which is founded on nothing but speculation. I do think that there are real benefits to be had and that we should explore alternative energy production and more sustainable manufacturing techniques but I fear that the whole issue might be dropped like a stone when the next belief system comes along. If we simply stopped spreading panic, through the media, and behaved intelligently, we could consolidate our efforts into achieving a realistic and lasting improvement in our behaviour.

antiquus
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
antiquus   2/25/2010 8:08:42 PM
NO RATINGS
I agree with your comments about atmospheric science, but I must say that astrophysics falls into a very gray area. While there are many reports that are clearly in line with scientific methods, much of the popular work is mere speculation. For example, this article http://bit.ly/donAoM uses the word "super-earth", suggesting that the body is a kin to our planet. When you read later in the article, however, you find that it is 6.5x mass, 2.7x diameter, and considerably hotter. This marketing-speak is repeated with every discovery, and easily found in the press. Also, every such announcement is accompanied by a full-color glossy picture of the new earth, giving the very misleading impression that the spectacular imaging is routine. Nothing could be further from the truth. I conclude that the astrophysics community is very divided in their adherence to the scientific method. The pre-ordained conclusion is that life exists elsewhere, and no published discovery will fail to remind us that we seek to discover that "truth", regardless of the facts at hand.

HankWalker
User Rank
Manager
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
HankWalker   2/25/2010 4:45:42 PM
NO RATINGS
If you spent any time talking to atmospheric science faculty, you would not be asking the question posed in your title. They collect measurements, attempt to understand physical relationships, and build models that explain the data, then make and check predictions. The real science has been mixed up with politics and the fact that a lot of the predictions are really inconvenient. Some of my colleagues who do not want to deal with these inconveniences like to say that the complex climate simulations are not very accurate, but they ignore the fact that much climate research uses analytical models that have evolved over many decades. In my experience, atmospheric scientists are well prepared to respond to reasoned questions about their research. The problem is that most of the questions and objections, sadly including those from many engineers, come from a position of nearly complete ignorance of the actual research.

Jonitron
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
Jonitron   2/25/2010 1:57:27 PM
NO RATINGS
Well Said. Science has become a key word that says "you cannot question this", when science is mostly a questioning process. The "modeling" is somthing that drives me crazy. The only "models" we have that actually work well are derived from years of actual experience wtih actual outcomes or events. If the earth is a billion years old, then our sample size for climate change modeling is not enough to even bother looking at. Just think, whether you think it was a few thousand or few million years ago, there was an "ice age", at which time the average temperature was at least below freezing. How did we warm up without evil men and thier cars?

WKetel
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
WKetel   2/25/2010 3:22:00 AM
NO RATINGS
I think that the point about cause and effect is very applicable here. It is quite reasonable tha global warming causes increased carbon dioxide. Has anybody done any testing, or even deep thinking, about that? My other comment, about the "concensous", is that a lot of these people were the same ones, 15 years ago, who were screaming about how our use of so much energy, and our more comfortable lifestyle, were "just totally immoral", given that many people in th8ird world countries don't have it as easy as we do. I do not accept the assertion that I am guilty because the poor people in other parts of the world do not have as nice a life as I do. I may wonder what I can do FOR them, and pity them, but I don't feel guilty about the difference in our comfort levels. The scientific method would require an assertion of a hypothesis, and then, if not experiments to prove or disprove it, at least a study of a lot of relevant data to lead to knowledge that would either validate or disprove the theory. I have not seen that in the global warming argument.

katgod
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
katgod   2/24/2010 8:59:46 PM
NO RATINGS
Do not forget that even when science is done as Bill Schweber states it is still fallible but I do agree with him. I also think FBG makes a good point.

Task
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
Task   2/24/2010 4:34:20 PM
NO RATINGS
Mr. Schweber, You might find an article by the late Micahel Crichton both interesting and supportive called "Aliens Cause Global Warming" which is about how a combination of things that look like science as well as politics result in bad science and bad policies. (It is at www.michaelcrichton.net/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.) However, I disagree with your generous treatment of astrophysics (especially the cosmology branch). I also wonder if some areaqs of atomic physics such as string theory can be called a scientific endeavor anymore either (20+ years and hardly any proposed experiments that can be tested.) There is way too much cute mathematics for its own sake and overly complex theory in some fields. Just because a quadratic equation has two answers doesn't mean both answers describe reality. Thank-you! TK

FBG
User Rank
Rookie
re: Opinion: Is 'climate science' really science?
FBG   2/24/2010 3:53:29 PM
NO RATINGS
Pedro-juan: "Correlation does not imply causality". A lot of people, including the climate scientists, seem to have forgotten that.

<<   <   Page 2 / 6   >   >>
August Cartoon Caption Winner!
August Cartoon Caption Winner!
"All the King's horses and all the KIng's men gave up on Humpty, so they handed the problem off to Engineering."
5 comments
Top Comments of the Week
Like Us on Facebook

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed
Flash Poll
Radio
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
How to Cope with a Burpy Comet
October 17, 2pm EDT Friday
EE Times Editorial Director Karen Field interviews Andrea Accomazzo, Flight Director for the Rosetta Spacecraft.