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Valeo makes your car engine hybrid

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prabhakar_deosthali
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
prabhakar_deosthali   7/25/2012 10:31:40 AM
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Quite an interesting approach. My Opel Corsa could turn into a hybrid- eager to see it happen earlier than 2017. Whta would the typical cost of conversion?

junko.yoshida
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
junko.yoshida   7/25/2012 10:39:23 AM
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Interesting development. But not available until 2017? What's the hold up?

Lloyd P
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Lloyd P   7/25/2012 7:08:47 PM
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The biggest hold-up is the time necessary to tune the system to the target vehicle, then validate the combination for durability. Once approved for production, there is validation at the component level and vehicle level. Vehicle level testing typically involves at least 4 seasons, including 2 winter cycles, of real world, test track, and lab testing to "prove" the design is acceptable. It is not uncommon for a program to take 4 years to go from approval to saleable vehicles. There are also regulatory issues to resolve (EPA testing in the US, crashworthyness testing and other levels of certification). Full disclosure: I am retired from a major North American automotive electronics supplier. These comments come from 30+ years developing electronics for the auto industry. Yes, Valeo and others have been pitching this and similar systems for at least 10 years now.

junko.yoshida
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
junko.yoshida   7/26/2012 10:36:19 AM
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Loloyd P, thank for posting. Ahhh, now I get it.

jg_
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
jg_   7/25/2012 11:30:36 AM
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Quite poor reporting, vague in the extreme, and could this be the same Valeo who have been pitching stop-start systems since 2009 ? Back then they promised 2013... http://www.valeo.com/en/press-releases/details.html?id=115 Genuine engineered Stop-Start systems need regen braking, larger batteries, and beefed up starter motors, is it not really a 'alternator retro-fit'.

anne-francoise.pele
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
anne-francoise.pele   7/25/2012 2:50:52 PM
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@jg: Thanks for your comment. I invite you to read the update. You will notice that Hybrid4All solution combines Valeo’s enhanced Stop-Start, regenerative braking and torque assist functions.

jg_
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
jg_   7/26/2012 12:41:15 AM
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That is certainly improved. No mention if this can displace the starter motor, or the increased battery-budget needed. A starter motor pulling on the accessory drive belt does not sound like a recipe for reliability.

anne-francoise.pele
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
anne-francoise.pele   7/25/2012 2:52:12 PM
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Good question, Junko. I have asked Valeo and am awaiting their answer about delivery.

elPresidente
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
elPresidente   7/25/2012 6:53:41 PM
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Are we supposed to be amazed by something you can buy as an option on a Chevy Malibu?

Lloyd P
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Lloyd P   7/25/2012 7:10:58 PM
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Similar systems also appeared on the limited production Hybrid Saturn Vue. It was not a well known or well publicized option, though.

anne-francoise.pele
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
anne-francoise.pele   7/25/2012 7:35:56 PM
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FYI, Valeo said its system ensures manufacturers compliance with future EU CO2 emissions norms up to the year 2020.

Bert22306
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Bert22306   7/25/2012 8:23:29 PM
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Mild hybrids, the type that this system would create, aren't all that expensive, but also don't offer huge rewards. Saturn, for instance, sold a mind hybrid Aura (same chassis as the Opel Vectra long wheel base version), but the fuel savings compared with the V-6 variant were only a couple of mpg at best, in real-world testing. I used to think that just about all cars in the near future would be mild hybrids. The manufacturers, however, do not seem to be heading in that direction, lately. As to meeting CO2 targets, that's 100 percent related to fuel economy. It looks to me like manufacturers are betting more on the stop-start feature, on smaller displacement but turbocharged 4 cylinder engines, direct injection, and the like. I wish that they would also introduce small displacement, turbocharged V-6 options. They may not quite match the fuel economy of a four, but they are so much nicer. A 2 liter turbo V-6 would be perfect for decent sized cars.

expendable crewman #1
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
expendable crewman #1   7/26/2012 1:17:51 PM
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I agree with you Bert. I would love it if all my car choices had twin turbo V6 with stop-start options. Completely off topic, but why are there no V4 engines to go with the V6, V8 V10 & V12s?

elPresidente
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
elPresidente   7/27/2012 11:14:23 AM
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I'll take a 2L turbo V8 spinning at 18,000 RPM

steve.freestone
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
steve.freestone   8/6/2012 9:30:17 PM
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And put it on a motorcycle! Take that, Honda GoldWing! (1800 cc 6 cylinder boxer)

Les_Slater
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Les_Slater   7/27/2012 3:33:34 PM
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I don't know all the reasons but it's looking like four cylinders with turbo charging is all one might need in the under 200 horse category. That can be pushed to 300. What does V6 buy you? More cylinders seem to be required only if you must go appreciably more than two liters for an easy 200+ horses.

Bert22306
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Bert22306   7/27/2012 7:43:10 PM
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A V-6, or even better a straight six, is a sweet, sweet engine. No matter how much you try to balance a four with extra balance shafts, it's always going to be a buzzy four. This has nothing to do with power. It has to do with naturally balancing the first and second moments. I'd much rather have a 2 liter 6 cylinder than a 2 liter 4 cylinder, EVEN IF the 6 did not produce more power.

Les_Slater
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Les_Slater   7/27/2012 9:38:45 PM
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Above, I said I do not know all the reasons, but the six seems to be going away, at least in the power range I've been talking about. I think there are a number of reasons. These might include economics, fuel efficiency, physical size and reliability. I like the six too, my favorite was the VR6 because of its compactness without too many compromises over the straight variety (actually with much of the soul and attributes of the straight) but it too seems to headed towards extinction. The vibrations of the four seem to have been sufficiently tamed, internally and externally. The bottom line these days seems to exclude elegance just for the sake of elegance. Power, efficiency, compactness, reliability and cost are what rules. Intake pressure boost, sophisticated valving and fuel deliver,and electronic control of everything have changed the game. We have new goals and rules. Metallurgy and mechanical engineering are also much advanced. And this is all part of a bigger platform and the ecosystem it lives in.

Bert22306
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Bert22306   7/28/2012 9:22:09 PM
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I think what we are seeing is that the V-6 is the higher grade option, in the mid sized cars with upgraded package. Once the province of V-8s. Fours are becoming prevalent even in mid-sized cars with the basic feature package. For example, the short wheel base Epsilon platform cars (platform designed by Opel), like the new Chevy Malibu and new Buick Regal, are turbo fours only (so far anyway). But the Buick Lacrosse, which is the long wheelbase Epsilon, comes with the V-6. If you look at Mercedes Benz, the C class and the SLK come either with turbo fours or with the new 60 degree V-6. And the luxury models, all but one, now come with only turbo V-8s. For some odd reason, Mercdes Benz doesn't yet offer turbo V-6s, although I'm willing to bet that's just around the corner. It looks like, for a given power output, you can get better EPA fuel economy ratings with turbo engines than naturally aspirated engines. Probably because, when driven mildly, e.g. city driving without hard acceleration, the turbo engine operates like low powered small displacement engine.

daleste
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
daleste   7/27/2012 2:54:19 AM
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This is interesting, but I guess it is not available as an after market option. I'm not sure if the additional cost of the system would really be cost effective with only a couple of MPG improvement.

agk
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
agk   7/27/2012 12:55:26 PM
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All the automobile companies will be very much interested to use this technology in their top models. They will expect that it enhances the over all engine power performance and the driving comfort with its higher efficiency.

R0ckstar
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
R0ckstar   7/27/2012 2:25:27 PM
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I can't really get too excited about this. It's not a compelling increase in efficiency, and from an engineering standpoint, it all just sounds like some kind of a band-aid afterthought. It's certainly not an elegant solution, so I'll just keep driving my environment-murdering gas hog until my flying electric car comes out.

Les_Slater
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Les_Slater   7/27/2012 3:56:16 PM
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I believe a mild hybrid with start-stop technology could be very valuable if it doesn't add appreciable to cost. An alternator centric solution seems to be quite adequate for mild braking energy recovery and delivering that small amount of energy back for propulsion later. Decoupling the belt/pulley system from the engine while it is stopped would allow the alternator/motor to keep systems like air conditioning alive. I'm sure the alternator/motor/belt/pulley system could be built robustly enough to start the engine. The electrical storage system would need to be higher capacity and higher voltage. 48 volts might work.

pinhead1
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
pinhead1   7/27/2012 5:37:12 PM
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For us city-dwellers, the start-stop system is significant. Even without the kinetic energy recovery feature of a hybrid drivetrain, the start-stop can potentially save a lot of gas if you spend so much time waiting at stop lights like I do on my commute. SO I think you're right - for city dwellers, even a very-mild hybrid should be significant. We have 2 economy cars, one is a hybrid and one is not. In our 100% city driving routine, the hybrid literally doubles the fuel economy of our non-hybrid.

Les_Slater
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Les_Slater   7/31/2012 3:26:58 AM
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I can see many advantages to the mild hybrid approach but there are of course shortcomings. One is the inability to drive the vehicle without the engine engaged and running. Another is the efficiency of braking energy recovery, especially if there is a torque converter type of automatic transmission. Braking recovery needs to optimized for low engine RPM so braking energy is not dissipated as heat pushing engine compression. The use of a dual clutch automatic could alleviate much of the braking loss if the alternator could be made to deliver substantial charge rate at engine RPMs under 1000.

_hm
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
_hm   7/28/2012 10:00:26 PM
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Very interesting approach. More auto vendor should get involved with Valeo to make this happen much quicker. How will they place required battery?

jnissen
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
jnissen   7/30/2012 6:23:08 PM
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Ford's ECO Boost technology is giving them V6 performance in the four cylinder format and the V6 is competing with with the V8's. It really is something that changes the overall equation. WHy take the hit for a heavy V6 when you can use a very powerful 4 and get terrific mileage to go along with it. I must admit I'd love to see an EcoBoost V8 with about 600+ HP!

daleste
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
daleste   7/31/2012 2:07:20 AM
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When I was buying my F150, I looked at the eco-boost. The V6 was 1 mpg more than the V8. The eco-boost V6 was one more mpg than the V6. The eco-boost was about $3k more than the V8. I decided to have a V8.

WKetel
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
WKetel   8/2/2012 9:35:44 PM
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The alternator-starter is half of the stop-start system, the other needed part is the means to disengage the engine so that the vehicle can coast. The simplest system would not need any of those fancy computers because it would rely on driver judgement, which is good for cutting fuel consumption in half for city driving. The problem with that system was the wear on the shift and clutch linkages from much greater use. Once some simple clutching system is developed, the rest will be easy. NO, it will not be for everybody, because many folks lack the skill needed to drive that way, and they are unable to concentrate enough to handle that kind of driving. But if they could do it in Mexico in the early seventies, with no outside funding, doing it today should not be that much of a challenge.

Simon Katich
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re: Valeo makes your car engine hybrid
Simon Katich   6/27/2013 6:22:56 AM
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Hybrid car engines are very expensive and efficient than the normal diesel car engines. People do prefer more the hybrid cars now a day than that of diesel cars. Hybrid cars have more powerful engine and can run for a long time without any engine defect. These hybrid cars are really very efficient and i have gone through the above article to know about it. http://www.swedishmotorautorepair.com/Services_2.html

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