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EDA not yet ready for cloud computing

2/3/2011 02:32 AM EST
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docdivakar
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
docdivakar   2/9/2011 9:14:24 PM
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@Rick Merritt: it was good to see you at DesignCon last week. As mentioned in my discussion with you, there are now a number of options available for HPC on the cloud. Bandwidth (computing & communication) is really not an issue. The network fabric for HPC clusters are available today at 20Gbps per lane and higher speeds are not that distant. Also, the advances in sparse matrix solution technologies have also made HPC a viable platform for much of EDA/TCAD flows. It is the business model that is at the heart of the problem here, as many have commented. Over a period of time, we will probably see several manifestations of SaaS emerge in EDA as well. Mid- to lower-tier EDA players will probably embrace the SaaS using cloud (HPC & others) before the big EDA does. This may be facilitated public domain tools mentioned above ( @unu: thanks for the info on Hadoop and PIG). Dr. MP Divakar

machado99
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
machado99   2/8/2011 11:18:37 PM
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You save money by firing your IT guys and decommissionng your servers.

unu
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
unu   2/5/2011 7:45:13 AM
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Hadoop is free. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadoop It is used by many organizations to run large distributed computations. Also if you are a tool developer and do not want to learn the details of low level cloud programming, you can use higher level language named PIG (also free) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_(programming_language). Cloud computing can help program an application over thousands of nodes. It works well for algorithms with the following pattern: Transform multiple (huge amount of) data using same procedure (the map phase), extract the result from the map result (reduce phase). This pattern appears in many EDA algorithms, at the flow level, but my claim is that the interesting match is at the intra tool level. Things which were prohibitive before become feasible. There is some confusion with many commercial tools already available for handling business data. However, EDA developers need to learn the details, and for that (IMHO) Hadoop and PIG are ideal (and fun).

_hm
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
_hm   2/5/2011 3:40:36 AM
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Medium and large organizations do have required tools and infrastructure to utilize various EDA tools. Main hurdle is for small business and independent consultnats/contractors. What are the advantages for cloud computing to them? Can they use required software for limited period with this cloud computing? If they can, cloud computing can significantly increase market for specialized EDA tools and help accelerate development and more innovations.

JT148
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
JT148   2/5/2011 1:43:11 AM
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Isn't anyone worried that cloud computing is the most outrageous rip off to come down the pike in our already outrageous lifetimes. Its incredible to me that anyone could imagine paying to store access and reuse their own data, especially with resource prices at the levels they are at now.

JamesColgan
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
JamesColgan   2/4/2011 10:34:03 PM
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@chandan Indeed. The answers more analog than digital ;)

saravanants
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
saravanants   2/4/2011 7:07:13 PM
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@unu, others: Technically, I think there's no problem putting EDA tools to work across the cloud. Its more of the business model thats really the issue here. Most of the cloud services today reduce cost by increasing their volume and slashing huge bills on operational and logistics costs... can that same model be applied to EDA tools in the present state? No way - because these tools are far more fragmented than one can imagine - and what standards are made are almost always broken across tools from different vendors... unless EDA industry converges on at least some proper open standards and agrees that interoperability for everyone is good enough - its not possible to increase volumes in licencing. EDA companies should go beyond thinking about current business houses alone and think of small and medium design houses too which can support bigger design companies for fabless design services. Also, a revenue model other than charging very huge (exhorbitant?) sums for licencing is definitely required to for the industry to really 'be on the cloud'.

saravanants
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
saravanants   2/4/2011 6:58:19 PM
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@James Colgan : Agree very much with u

saravanants
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
saravanants   2/4/2011 6:56:08 PM
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not much advantage considering large enterprises already use a server-multiple client mechanism to achieve the same... across the Internet is another thing, though...

unu
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re: EDA not yet ready for cloud computing
unu   2/4/2011 8:26:04 AM
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If we take the map-reduce main capability of the cloud technology, and apply it to solve EDA problems requiring design exploration (like synthesis optimization), one may provide a tool working only on the cloud. In that case there is no need for a change in licensing, since there is only one licence needed for the master node. In other words people seem to see only the lunching of EDA tools over the cloud, neglecting the design of a specialized EDA tool taking advantage of the cloud computing power at a lower, algorithmic level. Any comments?

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