Breaking News
News & Analysis

Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead

4/14/2011 03:40 PM EDT
18 comments
NO RATINGS
Page 1 / 2 Next >
More Related Links
View Comments: Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
Page 1 / 2   >   >>
resistion
User Rank
Manager
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
resistion   4/21/2011 4:32:22 AM
NO RATINGS
It's a scary race, indeed.

NAND_analyst
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
NAND_analyst   4/21/2011 4:16:23 AM
NO RATINGS
Well, that "almost a full generation ahead" process leadership hasn't lasted much longer than it takes ink to dry on the paper that the announcement was written on (or whatever the electronic equivalent is). SanDisk Announces 19-Nanometer Manufacturing Technology--World's Smallest, Most Advanced Process Node * Industry-leading 19nm 64-gigabit X2 memory chip; smallest NAND flash memory chip in the world * Volume production scheduled for the second half of 2011 MILPITAS, Calif., Apr 20, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- SanDisk Corporation (NASDAQ:SNDK), the global leader in flash memory cards, today announced a 64-gigabit (Gb), 2-bits-per-cell (X2) based monolithic chip made on 19-nanometer (nm) technology, the most advanced memory process technology node in the world. This latest technology enables SanDisk to produce embedded and removable storage devices with the high capacities and small form factors used in mobile phones, tablet computers and other devices. SanDisk will sample its 19nm 64Gb X2 device this quarter and expects to begin high-volume production in the second half of 2011. At that time, SanDisk will also add 3-bits-per-cell (X3) products fabricated with the 19nm process technology to its product lineup. more at http://investor.sandisk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=86495&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1553026&highlight=

unknown multiplier
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
unknown multiplier   4/17/2011 4:51:15 AM
NO RATINGS
Capacity only growing linearly while reliability falling exponentially, and controller growing larger to take care of it, no wonder SLC hasn't died yet.

ManasK.RayChaudhuri
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
ManasK.RayChaudhuri   4/17/2011 2:40:31 AM
NO RATINGS
Hail Sandisk!

NAND_analyst
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
NAND_analyst   4/16/2011 1:31:21 PM
NO RATINGS
If you have the right controller and Sandisk's Adaptive Flash Management, then you can use x3 in many products, including cards, USB drives, and embedded flash in handsets and tablets. Cf. http://savolainen.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/adaptive-flash-management/ But you are right, if x3 doesn't have those things, then it can't be used for much. This is why Sandisk gets better margins than other NAND producers.

unknown multiplier
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
unknown multiplier   4/16/2011 9:49:13 AM
NO RATINGS
3bpc only good for 1000 cycles maybe, what products can tolerate such low reliability?

unknown multiplier
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
unknown multiplier   4/16/2011 9:48:56 AM
NO RATINGS
3bpc only good for 1000 cycles maybe, what products can tolerate such low reliability?

NAND_analyst
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
NAND_analyst   4/16/2011 4:06:14 AM
NO RATINGS
"it is hard to imagine that they would start volume production from as late as Nov or Dec '10 as you stated…" Well, don't argue with me, argue with Micron's management. Why don't you read the transcript to their Oct 7 conference call: http://seekingalpha.com/article/229026-micron-technology-management-discusses-f4q2010-results-earnings-call-transcript I didn't say that they started volume production in Nov or Dec. I said that that was when the cross over occurred (that is, the point at which more 25nm chips were produced than 34nm). "And how do you know they do not have 20nm of 3-bit per cell design in the pipeline now?" lol, I'm sure that there are a lot of things in their pipeline. However, please read what I said--"IMFT dropped x3 in Dec 2009 because they couldn't make it work. They called it "junk" back then. I know they tried it again back in August, but haven't heard anything about it since they announced their retry." I'm not sure what you are in a snit about. Everything I said there is factual. And it is also factual that Sandisk is technologically ahead of the other NAND vendors in x3 production. It is also factual that Micron has repeatedly described x3 as "junk" NAND, and more than once has derided its possible capabilities. It is also fact that the reason they do so is because they are behind Sandisk technologically in this area, and they so far haven't been able to produce x3 chips that have the same endurance and reliability as Sandisk's x3 chips. And it is also fact that Sandisk is the only vendor to have qualified x3 in embedded applications.

JAK620
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
JAK620   4/15/2011 8:39:12 PM
NO RATINGS
IMFT's 25nm was announced in Jan 2010. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2928 And then both Intel and Micron's 25nm-based SSD devices started to flush the market in late March ~mid April Considering the R&D development/engineering work cycle, Fab cycle time, probe, assembly, test, and then SSD product design/debug/QRA...etc, it is hard to imagine that they would start volume production from as late as Nov or Dec '10 as you stated… And how do you know they do not have 20nm of 3-bit per cell design in the pipeline now?

NAND_analyst
User Rank
Rookie
re: Update: Intel, Micron take NAND process lead
NAND_analyst   4/15/2011 4:08:20 PM
NO RATINGS
You said, "IMFT has been making 25nm in volume for a lot longer than just a few months ago." Micron said this in their Q4 CC (on Oct 7): "Production increases are largely coming from continued transition to our 25 nanometer process technology which is expected to cross over and become the highest NAND production in the first quarter." So the cross over in 25nm volume production probably happened sometime in Nov or so. Toshiba/Sandisk began their 24nm transition in Oct-Nov, we will hear more about their progress next week in Sandisk's CC and the earthquake obviously threw them a curve, but I will still hazard a guess that their cross over will happen soon despite that curve. Certainly sooner than 11 months after they began. In other words, to respond to the real point I was making--it is an exaggeration to suggest that Micron is "almost a full generation ahead" of their competition But fleshing this out a little more--Micron and Sandisk really focus on different NAND markets. Micron is headed more toward SSDs, especially enterprise SSDs, while Sandisk is still geared toward consumer products. That isn't to say that Micron doesn't deal with consumer products, but clearly they want the higher margins that the enterprise offers. Sandisk gets their higher margins in consumer products due to their x3 leadership, and that is where they have focused their attention to date, and likely will do so at least until Fab 5 comes up. To say that Micron is "ahead" technologically is misleading because it ignores the differences in their models and ignores the nuances and the breadth of the NAND market. That breadth and complexity will only grow in coming years, as the SSD market grows and matures and as 1x production comes online in 2012. For disclosure's sake, I own them both.

Page 1 / 2   >   >>
Most Recent Comments
HitheshM500
 
NIRANKUSH456
 
NIRANKUSH456
 
David Ashton
 
Rich Krajewski
 
sranje
 
MeasurementBlues
 
MeasurementBlues
 
Sanjib.A
Flash Poll
Radio
LATEST ARCHIVED BROADCAST
Join our online Radio Show on Friday 11th July starting at 2:00pm Eastern, when EETimes editor of all things fun and interesting, Max Maxfield, and embedded systems expert, Jack Ganssle, will debate as to just what is, and is not, and embedded system.
Like Us on Facebook

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed
Top Comments of the Week