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Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case

8/24/2012 11:17 PM EDT
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selinz
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
selinz   8/24/2012 11:41:28 PM
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With a net income of about 5billion/qtr for the whole company, I'm sure that this stings a bit. But the bigger question is can they continue to sell the S3 and tablet?

rick merritt
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
rick merritt   8/25/2012 6:11:03 AM
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The SIII was not accused in this case which OI believe was filed before that handset was announced. The Galaxy Tab generally came away with very little so I suspect the road is clear for it, too.

askubel
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
askubel   8/24/2012 11:52:41 PM
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I don't believe the SIII was on trial in this case (it wasn't available when the charges were filed). This may change with future lawsuits, of course. For now the worst thing for Samsung is that consumers might get the idea that their phones are nothing but ripoffs. Nevermind the fact that the only patents they were found guilty of infringing are trivial UI elements; that's not easily understood by the average consumer. Simply the idea that something is a "copy" automatically conveys the idea of inferiority. Anyways, I hope the next headline isn't "Enraged Samsung employee starts fire at 32nm fab".

_hm
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
_hm   8/25/2012 12:08:17 AM
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Samsung designer will have much difficult time ahead as they may not again like to infringe iPhone5 patents.

t.alex
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
t.alex   8/25/2012 6:08:22 AM
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Yes these designers will have as little as two hours of sleep a day again (aka abused by management)

rick merritt
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
rick merritt   8/25/2012 6:12:26 AM
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At this point I think it is moot. Samsung has been able to gain some traction with larger screens and a faster move to LTE. So the Korean company is now actually leading in key areas where the iPhone 5 needs to play catch up.

Robotics Developer
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Robotics Developer   8/25/2012 1:52:14 AM
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I am surprised by the amount! I wonder what the long term effect of this will be on cellphone and smartphone designs? 33 multi-part questions, that must have been a nightmare for the jury, I hope that they got paid well..

NewYankEE
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
NewYankEE   8/25/2012 3:54:59 AM
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"I hope that they got paid well.." Never heard of jury duty equating to being paid well (it usually a pittance)....perhaps you're confusing the jury with the expert witnesses or the lawyers.

Comfortable
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Comfortable   8/25/2012 2:27:45 AM
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$1B ? Hmmm... Isn't that offset by raising the price they charge Apple for their Samsung-manufactured ICs by about 5% ?

wilber_xbox
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
wilber_xbox   8/27/2012 5:49:14 PM
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i am pretty sure that Apple buys Samsung chips on contract basis. Otherwise any manufacturer can increase the price based on demand.

tpfj
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
tpfj   8/25/2012 2:30:11 AM
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So the jury finds Samsung's essential IP valid, but Apple not infringing? So they think the standards committee has it wrong when they say it is essential to the making of a phone?

rick merritt
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
rick merritt   8/25/2012 6:13:45 AM
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Good point. Just why they thought Samsung's 3G patents were valid but not infringed is an open question.

tpfj
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
tpfj   9/5/2012 4:15:27 PM
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Rick, have you taken a good look at a Samsung Galaxy S phone? If you have, you may notice that the rounded corners at the top have a smaller radius than the corners at the bottom. This is important for trade dress copying arguments. Did this come up at all? To my knowledge, Apple's iPhone rounded corners are the same top and bottom?

Comfortable
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Comfortable   8/25/2012 2:34:33 AM
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5% doesn't work. Sales for 2012 to Apple = $11B. Need to raise 10%.

rusreb
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
rusreb   8/25/2012 3:25:58 AM
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That or withhold or increase the costs to them of key display technology. Don't know how their flexible displays will work out or if they hold key patents to those but if they do it's conceivable Apple could soon be the only phone without a lower power/ thinner/ flexible display. That could really hurt. :(

gatorfan
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
gatorfan   8/25/2012 3:45:13 AM
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Apple didn't reach this point to cut their throat. They are the leading Supply Chain management firm in the electronics universe. You can bet they have alternatives for their components.

eewiz
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
eewiz   8/25/2012 5:04:19 AM
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Exactly. Apple can easily find another supplier if samsung raises price.

GroovyGeek
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
GroovyGeek   8/25/2012 7:31:23 AM
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This shows complete lack of understanding what it takes to manufacture and qualify a chip like the A5. First and foremost, leading edge capacity in the amount t that sole needs it simply does not exist unless TSMC pisses off their entire customer base or Intel pr GF signs on to be an Apple foundry. Second, the A5 is far from being particularly unique, it is basically and ARM core with some Apple elements. I would not be surprised if it uses substantial physical IP from Samsung. It would take upwards of an year for Apple to secure a second source in the quantities they need. The really interesting question is what their foundry contract with Samsung says. Because I am sure that at least some within Samsung are considering whether the cost of pulling the plug on Apple manufacturing is worth it. Given Apple's aggressiveness in the trial I suspect that they have a firm contract for supply a year out and are hard at work on a transition thereafter. The really interesting piece is that there are probably only two companies that they can go to, Intel and GF. In the past Intel has walked away from non profitable Apple business, and given that Intel wants to push their own mobile chip line I suspect that GF will end up with the business.

eewiz
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
eewiz   8/25/2012 8:20:19 AM
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you spelled it out correctly. It is a fundamental assumption that Apple is smart enough to get a binding supply contract from samsung on price/quantity/term before starting the process. Any comments without making that assumption is non sense.

askubel
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
askubel   8/27/2012 1:39:45 AM
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Here's an interesting thought: What if Apple moves to x86 in one of the future next iterations of the iPhone?

old account Frank Eory
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
old account Frank Eory   8/27/2012 9:32:55 PM
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Maybe someday when x86 is as competitive on power as the ARM-based A5. Meanwhile, you can bet that Apple didn't blindly and aggressively pursue this litigation without considering possible effects on A5 supply. Whether Plan B is TSMC, GF, UMC or some combination of foundries, I strongly suspect that Plan B is more fully developed than anyone realizes.

Python0
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Python0   8/25/2012 6:04:52 AM
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Apple will experience as well its decline like Lance Amstrong !!!

eewiz
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
eewiz   8/25/2012 8:21:33 AM
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Not for another five years.

elctrnx_lyf
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
elctrnx_lyf   8/25/2012 5:57:21 PM
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Samsung and apple has fought at many venues and the court decisions are aloso different in different times. This judgement is definitely a positive news for apple.

mike.seiler
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
mike.seiler   8/25/2012 9:03:10 PM
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Amazing how every court that apple tried this in around the world except the US was a loss for Apple. I guess this kind of result doesn't surprise me. Gotta support the home team. But clearly the jury weren't very intelligent if they found that the tab didn't infringe but then awarded damages against it. If I were Samsung I'd just skip the US market and focus on the rest of the world. Whats 350mil ppl comapred to what another 5.5 billion? Maybe that kind of tactic would get better results when the American consumer is outraged at having to buy a Samsung product on overseas holidays.

Steven Mitchell
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Steven Mitchell   8/27/2012 10:39:25 AM
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Hopefully, your reasoning improves by that time as well...

markhahn0
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
markhahn0   8/25/2012 9:31:19 PM
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apalling: apple deserves what it earns though its dedication to user experience, including cosmetic design. but it deserves no more. in particular, it does not deserve to stake out the whole universe of possible smartphone designs, excepting triangular and difficult-to-use ones. apple is an abusive monopolist of the worst order. I can only hope that IP reform will happen before samsung's appeals end.

Steven Mitchell
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Steven Mitchell   8/27/2012 10:35:53 AM
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You're so right. Theft is so overrated and should be protected at all costs.

Stanley_
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Stanley_   8/25/2012 11:54:12 PM
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Now I'm pretty sure there will be no ipad mini having 7 inch screen. I can bet all my fortune for this.

Luis Sanchez
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Luis Sanchez   8/26/2012 9:17:54 PM
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Well, the good thing is this is over and it's my impression that it was a fast process. Now let's see what people with samsung phones think and do. Will they opt for the iPhone instead? And from all this... what does the industry learn? To make a big effort to not copy the top player? Isn't this something that happens often in the industry? I mean... come on, a mobile phone is a mobile phone and there's not much form factor difference you can put in the design. Would there have been another reason behind which got these competitors in to the fight? And isn't it funny how they are competitors in one field and vendor and client in another? Qualcomm tried to do this some years ago and couldn't. Part of the argument was that Qualcomm was competing against his clients.

wilber_xbox
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
wilber_xbox   8/27/2012 5:52:44 PM
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my perception is that the people tend to buy genuine items even though they pay premiums. This case will be boon for Apple, which is already riding on iSuccess.

old account Frank Eory
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
old account Frank Eory   8/27/2012 9:36:26 PM
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"a mobile phone is a mobile phone and there's not much form factor difference you can put in the design." Seriously? That may have been true prior to 2007, but the original iPhone changed everything. A good argument can be made that if not for the iPhone, there would be no Android phones either.

Sheetal.Pandey
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
Sheetal.Pandey   8/27/2012 11:03:08 AM
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I am not surprised. Apple was bound to win. They seem reasonable in their arguments. I guess they know the basics well.

wilber_xbox
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
wilber_xbox   8/27/2012 5:55:03 PM
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What is the possibility that the jury's decision will be overruled by higher court? I do not have a good knowledge of the jury system. It sounds like 9 randomly picked people, who have no expertise in electronics or law have decided on who is guilty.

old account Frank Eory
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
old account Frank Eory   8/27/2012 9:37:46 PM
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The jury foreman was himself a patent holder.

hot-electron
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
hot-electron   8/27/2012 7:43:46 PM
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What Apple will be doing with another billion $? I though they had too much cash on hand.

old account Frank Eory
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
old account Frank Eory   8/27/2012 10:23:36 PM
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It's amazing what a jury of 9 random people in Silicon Valley looks like. Any suggestion that this jury was somehow inadequate or ill-equipped to hear this case is, I think, not going to fly. The foreman was a retired EE who worked for 35 years in the hard disk drive industry and has a patent of his own related to video compression. Another juror was a mechanical engineer, another "an aspiring software engineer", yet another had worked at National Semiconductor and yet another had worked at various IT startups as a benefits administrator. One prospective juror that Apple lawyers successfully excluded from the jury was a Google engineer who had worked on, among other things, the Android OS. This info came from the following article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-25/apple-samsung-jury-may-have-leaned-on-engineer-patent-holder.html I don't know the ins & outs of why different IP litigation cases are filed in different districts, except that there is often a strong preference for filing in Tyler, Texas -- where IP litigation is a local cottage industry. There you might be able to get a jury consisting of a farmer, a housewife, a truck driver and any number of people completely unrelated to and lacking knowledge of the electronics industry. I mean no offense to the good people of Tyler, I'm just pointing out that there is no significant local electronics industry there. I don't quite understand the strategy of filing there. Do lawyers think a less technically sophisticated jury will be more easily influenced? That sword can cut both ways, and seems risky to me, whether you're the plaintiff or the defendant. For a case like this one, I would think either side would prefer a Silicon Valley jury containing several members with experience in our industry.

junko.yoshida
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re: Apple awarded $1.05B in Samsung patent case
junko.yoshida   8/28/2012 2:03:38 PM
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Frank, absolutely, you are dead on. I have heard so many times that high tech companies do prefer to file IP litigation in Texas, rather than in Silicon Valley, precisely for the reason you mentioned. They want to confuse the juror and they want their results their way. (I was told) But in this Apple vs Samsung case, my god, the jurors they assembled are amazing. I think it's a significant decision (and foresight) on the part of Apple to do this in the court in San Jose.

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