Breaking News
Design How-To

PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'

3/22/2011 03:10 AM EDT
11 comments
NO RATINGS
More Related Links
View Comments: Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
hinklecw
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
hinklecw   6/29/2011 12:03:45 PM
NO RATINGS
@antiquus and @msd1107 -- I think you may have the wrong idea. V2B is aimed at short (15-30 minute) peaks associated with things like HVAC. This adds to the DEMAND charge associated with large scale facilities, which can be 10's of dollars / kW, assessed on a monthly basis.

antiquus
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
antiquus   4/5/2011 8:47:13 PM
NO RATINGS
If V2B can return $100/mo., that means you give up nearly 70kWh in an 80 hour month -- approaching 1kW continuously (time out for dr. appointments, forgetting to plug in, low demand, etc.). And when you get home, you return that 70kWh to the battery at the "night rate", but that would cost over $70 in my neighborhood. To clear $100 _profit_, you would have to deliver 3x, or about 3kW continuously. At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_battery it says that a typical car will carry 25kWh, so 3kW times 8 hours pretty well drains the tank, so to speak, and you'd be a-walkin' home. I'm not buying your math, but instead will vote with msd1107.

msd1107
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
msd1107   3/24/2011 9:34:36 PM
NO RATINGS
Using the PHEV or EV battery to supply energy to the grid during the day while at work and then recharging during the night at home has fatal flaws. A down loadable spreadsheet at http://bit.ly/b5xI64 discusses this with examples. As "Work to Ride, Ride to Work" says, if this could be done, the power companies would be doing it already.

anon9303122
User Rank
Freelancer
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
anon9303122   3/23/2011 2:43:33 PM
NO RATINGS
Scheme is right on the money. I'm sorry to say that if you could make money buying batteries, charging them during off-peak hours and then selling back the electricity during peak hours, the utilities would already be doing it. In a big way. There are plenty of energy storage ponds around various places. I have yet to see any meaningful peak shaving battery systems. Millner has a dog in the fight so I'm not surprised by his rosy assessment.

Rick DeMeis
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
Rick DeMeis   3/23/2011 12:57:39 PM
NO RATINGS
In Millner's presentation, he had numbers that showed the "cost" of extra charge/recharge cycles of supplying power to the grid on battery life of about $3/month versus a benefit to the owner of selling power of $100/month.

CliffT
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
CliffT   3/22/2011 6:44:34 PM
NO RATINGS
New technologies, such as carbon-nanotube-based batteries and power generators such as fuel cells and the (shock)Wave Disk Generator recently funded at Michigan State (http://arpa-e.energy.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=0O_uoJdrclc%3d&tabid=225) will have a much larger impacts on the value of PHEVs than some pie-in-the-sky ideas about the side-benefits of plugging in your car. For one, who expects the cost-benefit of using your car to decrease power needs during peak hours is really going to help? Not only will that require the use of (currently) expensive fuel to recharge the battery, but it increases the number of charge/discharge cycles and shortens the life of the (currently) expensive batteries. The only part of Millner's findings I agree with are that making the car "smarter" will allow it to be more efficient in its power use. Check out that Wave Disk Generator, by the way. It's a pretty cool concept, and we could actually see it in use within a few years. Combine that with high-torque/high-efficiency electric motors on the horizon, and I can imagine a hybrid that can beat a super-car off the line and drive cross-country on a tank of (insert fuel) in the relatively near future.

stixoffire
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
stixoffire   3/22/2011 8:59:12 AM
NO RATINGS
How about improving the batteries.

inakito
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
inakito   3/22/2011 8:25:37 AM
NO RATINGS
Why not add solar cells to the roof? Also maybe adding some of aerodynamics learned lessons in formula 1 may also help reducing power consumption.

Mark Wehrmeister
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
Mark Wehrmeister   3/22/2011 4:38:39 AM
NO RATINGS
I like that idea. It would be the equivalent of some of the performance profile choices you find in high-end sports cars but with a green purpose instead.

Rick DeMeis
User Rank
Rookie
re: PHEV charging scheme could ease 'hybrid penalty'
Rick DeMeis   3/22/2011 3:58:17 AM
NO RATINGS
Why not give drivers a choice of which battery management algorithm to use? Say maximize electric range to avoid fill ups or overall efficiency as in Millner and his colleagues scheme.

Flash Poll
Radio
LATEST ARCHIVED BROADCAST
EE Times editor Junko Yoshida grills two executives --Rick Walker, senior product marketing manager for IoT and home automation for CSR, and Jim Reich, CTO and co-founder at Palatehome.
Like Us on Facebook

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed
Top Comments of the Week