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Ethernet Backbone in Car: Hype or Reality?

8/6/2013 08:20 PM EDT
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Tom Murphy
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Re: Not sure of the pressing need...
Tom Murphy   8/7/2013 10:32:32 PM
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Al: This is not about the devices people are brining into cars, but about the devices being built into cars. The cars, in essence, are evolving into complex machines that require a more sophisticated network.  

Now, as exciting as I think that is, I think it's fair to ask another question. There is likely an evolving and strong market for this, but isn't there also a growing market for a simpler car?  Wouldn't a car be a lot more affordable if it didn't have all this technology built in?  I know this is EETimes and this is a bit heretical, but, candidly, I'd like to know how much technology is adding to the cost of cars, making them unaffordable for many people.

amagnani
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Not sure of the pressing need...
amagnani   8/7/2013 7:39:19 PM
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I guess I'm not sure why people think there's a pressing need to have wired ethernet replace working technologies in cars.  The idea that consumers are bringing more and more devices into their cars, all cars, not just luxury models, is fine, but how many of those devices use wired ethernet?

Why would you need the wired comm's in a car (which often need to be bullet-proof for safety) to be ethernet?  It's unnecessary and could be dangerous.

Now the need or desire for Bluetooth, or even Wi-fi built in to some car utility processor if you're going to argue that you're going to want data from your higher speed cameras brought into a portable device, or even a USB port is one matter, and it makes a lot of sense, but replace the working, tried and true, and perfectly sufficient existing infrastructure with a wired ethernet and all it's issues?  I have to ask why?

My tablet doesn't have a wired ethernet connector... nor does my phone... and they don't need one... my laptop doesn't even have an native ethernet port anymore and needs an adapter to go to wired ethernet now.  You're going to give me a hardwired ethernet plug in my car in 8 to 10 years?  For what exactly? 

 

-al

junko.yoshida
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Re: Both CAN and Ethernet should co-exist
junko.yoshida   8/7/2013 7:28:22 PM
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That's correct. You can find more details on BroadR-Reach technology -- developed by Broadcom for automotive Ethernet -- at http://www.opensig.org/

PHILLIP.MCGEE
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Re: Not in 8 to 10 years
PHILLIP.MCGEE   8/7/2013 5:51:37 PM
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@Junko: That is exactly the point that I was trying to make. 

RGARVIN640
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Re: Both CAN and Ethernet should co-exist
RGARVIN640   8/7/2013 5:51:01 PM
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Oh, then it is not 'standard' etherent.

  An interface over a single pair would be lower power, but I am still not clear on EMI improvements compared to shielded solutions.

junko.yoshida
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Re: Not in 8 to 10 years
junko.yoshida   8/7/2013 5:49:57 PM
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PHILLIP, wow, CAN bus had gone through a long trechereous history. 



So, you point being...it's no cake walk for automotive Ethernet...?

junko.yoshida
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Re: Both CAN and Ethernet should co-exist
junko.yoshida   8/7/2013 5:46:56 PM
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@RGARVIN640, Broadcom claims in its whitepaper:

Single-pair Automotive Ethernet, which uses un-shielded twisted pair (UTP) cable to deliver data at a rate of 100Mbps, is a relatively new Ethernet technology designed to meet automotive requirements for reliability, electromagnetic emissions and minimal power consumption. A single-pair unshielded cable along with smaller and more compact connectors can reduce connectivity cost up to 80 percent and cabling weight up to 30 percent.

PHILLIP.MCGEE
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Re: Not in 8 to 10 years
PHILLIP.MCGEE   8/7/2013 5:42:21 PM
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@Junko: I suggest you take a look at the history of the introduction of CAN as a reference.  It was developed by Bosch a long time before any automobile manufacturer actually considered making use of it, and even then it wasn't until it had gone through revisions and standardization.  It even includes a side-trip with GM trying to alter it into a single-wire version. 

CAN on Wikipedia

RGARVIN640
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Re: Both CAN and Ethernet should co-exist
RGARVIN640   8/7/2013 5:23:07 PM
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The main problem will be in power consumption, as the Phy's for ethernet use are power hogs. Is there a solution that has a lower power requirement than the current Phy's?

Bert22306
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Re: Both CAN and Ethernet should co-exist
Bert22306   8/7/2013 5:07:45 PM
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Yes, I totally agree with that, Junko. For that matter, you can even have separate Ethernet networks in cars, say one for critical controls and one for infotainment, which are physically separate. I'm wouldn't be surprised if the CAN bus is gradually replaced by Ethernet, for example, one client system at a time.

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