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New York Plans $45 Billion Fab Campus

9/20/2013 11:15 AM EDT
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rick merritt
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Wow
rick merritt   9/20/2013 12:41:20 PM
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Ambitious! Methinks if they got three large 450mm wafer fabs it would represent a pretty good share of all those suckers that might get built, at least in the US.

How upstate NY became a bigger silicon valley than Silicon Valley I don't know. Wait a minute, maybe I do --housing prices!

FISH1230
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Re: Wow
FISH1230   9/20/2013 2:53:45 PM
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There is even no 300mm fab in Silicon Valley. 450mm in California? Only in dream, LOL. Go, Governor Andrew Cuomo! I will vote you for next President of the United States of America!

goafrit
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Re: Wow
goafrit   9/20/2013 9:27:58 PM
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>> I will vote you for next President of the United States of America! 

You think that qualifies him for that job? Good luck on that. Congress will surely veto that if someone else pushes that idea.

docdivakar
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Re: Wow
docdivakar   9/23/2013 8:11:35 PM
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Well Rick, you have the real estate part correct, NY wins. But as for REAL talent, I am not so sure! With all due respect to my colleagues in the east, the fabs in Silicon Valley stopped functioning quite a while ago but the number of IC Design companies is still the highest in California. Just take one look at the number of professional events and activities in Silicon Valley, you will get the picture!

NY does not have the same problems as CA does (like illegal immigration, high real estate cost), it can afford to give higher tax breaks to attract more businesses to move. In due course, I expect CA to come up with counter strategies to attract fabs here so I can say I really work in Silicon Valley!

MP Divakar

HS_SemiPro
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Re: Wow
HS_SemiPro   9/24/2013 1:05:43 AM
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Design engineers are not the only people needed for run a FAB.

Charles.Desassure
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Creation of jobs...
Charles.Desassure   9/20/2013 10:41:13 PM
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I think this is good.  The creation of jobs is always good news.  I am a little surprise that they selected upstate New York.  But I am sure they reviewed the population growth and received a tax discount from city council.

HS_SemiPro
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Re: Creation of jobs...
HS_SemiPro   9/21/2013 2:17:55 AM
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There  is lot of ENGG talent near Upstate NY area. Lot of  good univesities, RPI, SUNY , Cornell, SUNY buffallo, Also other top nocth universites in Mass and CT,

GE, Lockheed Martin also in the area,

Lot of IBM, GF, And JDA alliance partner engineers are there (Samsung, Toshiba, ST).

In Burlington Vermont and up in Canada in Bromont. there is Semiconductor talent,

PLus NY state offered like  no tax for long time 10-20years and cities are developing infrastructure. (offsetting cost of bulding a FAB in TAx beaks)

junko.yoshida
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Re: Creation of jobs...
junko.yoshida   9/21/2013 5:53:08 AM
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@HS_SemiPro, you wrote: "PLus NY state offered like† no tax for long time 10-20years and cities are developing infrastructure. (offsetting cost of bulding a FAB in TAx beaks)" The state of New York's interest and investment in this is serious. After having lived in Silicon Valley for a decade and then moved to NY, i had to do a double take, when I began seeing lots of TV commercial -- by the state of NY -- showing off images of clean rooms of semiconductor fabs.

elctrnx_lyf
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Re: Creation of jobs...
elctrnx_lyf   9/22/2013 7:37:27 AM
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It would be a big news for many engineers who is looking for a right place to work in the east. If the infrastucture is right and the government supports there would be many more fab houses icoming to new york.

Peter Clarke
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Re: Creation of jobs...
Peter Clarke   9/23/2013 6:22:12 AM
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Upstate New York has been chosen for years....this is the logical extension of G450C....but as to whether it will happen. That is another questions

resistion
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No timeline given
resistion   9/20/2013 11:04:12 PM
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No timeline=good as never. Can't we even assume 2015? 2016? India might even appear faster!

Peter Clarke
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Re: No timeline given
Peter Clarke   9/23/2013 6:30:25 AM
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@resistion

While like India ......state of NY is trying to formulate the plan and then get commercial companies to spend the money...

But by doing some of the early heavy lifting for those companies it should reduce the cost.

 

 

HS_SemiPro
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450mm FAB
HS_SemiPro   9/21/2013 2:09:29 AM
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I don't think  either TSMC is going to make any 450mm FAB here,  they don't even have any 300mm FAB outside Taiwan. They like to keep their advance tech and mfg close to chest.

Intel is already making 450mm Pilot line in OR (their Process Dev HQ). 

I think GF may make a  450mm FAB there in future, with some other stake holders like IBM or some alliance partners.

 

geekmaster
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Re: 450mm FAB
geekmaster   9/22/2013 9:21:39 PM
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New York should be a great example to other states. Maybe IBM is also a driving force here. NY has created at SUNY the outstanding CNSE, then Globalfoundries at Luther Forrest, and Marcy Nanocenter is on the radar. We don't hear about project Azalea much after the bill died at the Oregon legislature. The idea that TSMC would build a fab in the US is not so far fetched anymore once they get more business from Apple. TSMC has already a fab in the US and just look at Samsung in Austin: they converted the Flash fab to Logic. Being close to customer Apple may be a driving force here.  So, we see Globalfoundries or now also TSMC as candidates. What counts are the tax breaks, holidays and any cash from the government.

Peter Clarke
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Re: 450mm FAB
Peter Clarke   9/23/2013 6:27:20 AM
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Our best guess was that Project Azalea was a TSMC planning exercise for a fab in the US but the latest mood music from TSMC is playing down a US fab

Peter Clarke
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Re: 450mm FAB
Peter Clarke   9/23/2013 6:27:20 AM
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Our best guess was that Project Azalea was a TSMC planning exercise for a fab in the US but the latest mood music from TSMC is playing down a US fab

aarunaku
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Re: 450mm FAB
aarunaku   9/24/2013 10:57:41 AM
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It might pop eyes for fabless people (isn't  fabless meant to be fabless?) by the sheer number 45B$. If one compares the networth of the design and software companies of Si valley to NY, there is a huge difference.

Historically, many fabs started in Si valley and Hudson Valley. But eventually CA's Si valley became more suited for designers and corporate HQs for manufacturing companies than running a fab.

What happened to the fabs in CA like Sandisk, Intel, National fabs...etc?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

On the other hand, if one sees the fab world, the manufacturing is quite a generic hi-tech operation, which would require more of infrastructure like transport,  water, disposal of chemical waste, power and lastly but not the least safety. Generally they are on the outskirts of main city in US.

The number of hi-tech staff required to manufacture is far less than what it takes to design, market and innovate.

Currently California is overcrowded in Si Valley, cost of running the fab might be staggering.

There is some sense to why manufacturing is happening in Upstate NY, even though NY is a highly taxed state. Labor costs are very small compared to high tech equipment and infrastructure requirements.

 

prabhakar_deosthali
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Re:
prabhakar_deosthali   9/23/2013 8:40:26 AM
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It looks like there is another Silicon Valley in making -  On the East Coast .

Is NY government following the footsteps of Indian Government in terms of setting up of Fabs?

Peter Clarke
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Re: Following India
Peter Clarke   9/23/2013 10:43:41 AM
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@prabhakar

Meaning no disrespect to India and its government's efforts to create two 300-mm wafer fabs there BUT I think New York has been well ahead of India in terms of both timing and scale.

Globalfoundries's wafer fab is there in upstate New York partly in thanks to the the efforts of state efforts and support of IBM. If any 450mm wafer fabs also land here it will just be a continuation of decade-long, sophisticated and expensive effort to build ecosystem and critical mass.

chipmonk0
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Re: Following India
chipmonk0   9/24/2013 11:41:58 AM
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@ Peter Clarke

 Well said. At times a dose of reality is sorely needed.

chipmonk0
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No more prod. Fabs in Si Valley ..
chipmonk0   9/24/2013 12:09:34 PM
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Fabs require far too much space & water, create chemical wastes etc etc. The climate and terrain of Silicon Valley is way too attractive to allow monster Fabs ( 450 and beyond ? ) in our midst. Not much interest yet for building any Fabs in the Central Valley ( within commuting distance of Si Valley ) either.

NY state has both the urge and the money to lure back mfg. to the once leading state. There is also plenty of space in upstate NY for mega Fabs. But attracting good people to the planned Fabs in back of beyond Mohawk Valley etc., and keeping their Families there would be a challenge. We see that already with the Foundry that opened shop in the hood there - the CTO with just a BS from a once leading IDM that ran itself to the ground ! Mediocrity inevitably begets mediocrity. 

To attract hotshots of Si Valley calibre to the planned Fabs, there would need to be the same level of opportunity for job hopping & getting raises w/o having to move the Family. To attract their family members, NY state itself may have to invest heavily to also improve the educational & cultural environment in the area - even polish up the local wineries in the Finger Lakes region to develop some of the cachet of the Bay Area ! If all else fails provide cheap shuttle flights to NYC for daytrips to do Shopping & take in Shows.

wilber_xbox
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Re: No more prod. Fabs in Si Valley ..
wilber_xbox   9/26/2013 9:15:11 AM
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NY state is fast becoming hub for the fab. Probably the local eco-system is becoming conducive and local bureaucracy is gelling with the manufacturing. Anyway good initiatives.

DrFPGA
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Wet Lands?
DrFPGA   9/23/2013 7:21:41 PM
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Hope these sites will be protected from floods! One bad storm and $45B down the drain (literally!). Anyone have a GPS coordinate for the site?

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