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Toyota Suddenly Accelerates Fuel-Cell Race

1/7/2014 11:35 AM EST
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zewde yeraswork
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
zewde yeraswork   1/7/2014 6:12:11 PM
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Entrepreneurship is going to be an important part of it. There is a huge opportunity in providing hydrogen to the people. It's no surprise that both of the last two presidents were out in front of it. If anything, the industry is catching up with the demand for such cars. How long do people think until hydrogen is the norm?

Bert22306
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
Bert22306   1/7/2014 5:44:41 PM
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Perhaps. On the other hand, I once had a yogurt maker, so I could make my own yougurt at home. After not so long, I said wait. It takes time. I need milk. What a nuisance! I can just go to the store and buy the yogurt, when I buy milk.

Having the gear to make your own hydrogen at home is hardly a trivial matter, and it won't work at all well for people living in apartments. The amount of energy the average person uses in his cars is close to or more than what they use in their homes. So manufacturing enough hydrogen may not be such a simple proposition, depending on your circumstances.

Seems to me that a delivery infrastructure for very high pressure H2 gas cannot help but be a lot more expensive and complicated than a delivery infrastructure for relatively low volatility fuel. There's a reason why things evolve as they do.

hasenmi
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
hasenmi   1/7/2014 5:38:29 PM
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cstandif - I have a problem with the term "Monopoly" as a plural. By definition, that seems wrong.
However, hydrogen, as you say, is much easier to produce; therefore, I suspect there will be a lot of ways to fill your tank, when the entrepenuers get in the picture.

cstandif
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
cstandif   1/7/2014 5:30:03 PM
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I think the key to using Hydrogen as a low cost energy solution is to do away with the monopolies that produce fuel.  Since electrolysis is a low tech method of producing Hydrogen from water this could be done at home.  In other words, your garage could be your filling station with the electrical energy coming from solar or wind...  The storage tanks could be underground.  This is not something that Exxon or other any oil company would want so surely measures will be taken to prevent this such as lobbying the government to pass laws that regulate this so as to only allow "licenced" dealers to create and store such energy.  Hence we are right back to "gas stations".  However, this will certainly not prevent many from doing there own thing.  Once Hydrogen becomes makeable/storable at home with vehicles that can use it this will launch a new era filled with entrepenuers and startup companies.  How this all plays out nobody knows.

hasenmi
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
hasenmi   1/7/2014 5:24:13 PM
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Bert22306 - I remember Honda showing a Home Hydrogen Reformer, when they first started showing the Clarity.

hasenmi
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
hasenmi   1/7/2014 5:20:29 PM
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LarryM99 - Ah! But, the compressing of the gas is no different than CNG tanks and the Home Setup for CNG. In addition, what is explosive energy in CNG as compared to CH2? We also need to remember that the Hindinberg did not explode, it burned.

Bert22306
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The O2 side intakes
Bert22306   1/7/2014 4:57:48 PM
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Are we going to start seeing fancy new O2 intakes, on the sides of the hood, in all cars now? Sort of as a fashion statement?

Surely, internal combustion requires O2 intake too, no? Hint: what is the air cleaner for in cars?

Bert22306
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
Bert22306   1/7/2014 4:54:04 PM
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Yes, finally indeed. Things are looking up for EVs, IMHO.

If I'm remembering this correctly, many years ago, perhaps it was 11 years ago, Toyota was experimenting not JUST on the fuel cell in the car, but also an on-board hydrogen reformer. As has been repeated on here several times, for the time being, on-board hydrogen reformer research has stalled? Well, I think it needs to un-stall, because without it, my bet is the FEV is going to be about as popular as the BEV.

That's not meant to be a compliment.

LarryM99
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Re: Finally! Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles
LarryM99   1/7/2014 4:46:34 PM
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Home hydrogen generation is the obvious next step, but there are a couple of issues. Generating hydrogen is a trivial high-school science experiment, but pressurizing it is a little more complex. This is particularly true given the second issue, which is that it needs to be done safely. I would just as soon not read about any Hindenburg re-enactments...

betajet
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Re: Atmosphere of earth - O2 20.946%
betajet   1/7/2014 4:29:53 PM
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The best way to produce hydrogen is solar-powered electrolysis of water.  In this case, you store the hydrogen and release the oxygen into the air.  When you recombine that hydrogen later in a fuel cell, you're taking the same amount of oxygen out of the air and the fuel cell gives you back the water.  So there's no net loss of oxygen.  The hydrogen is simply a great way to store solar energy.

If you produce hydrogen from fossil fuels, you do convert oxygen to CO2 at some point (bad) unless you're converting biowaste natural gas (good).

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