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Hydrogen Fuel Cells: DOE Finds Faster, Cheaper Catalyst

Recharges fuel cells in 90 seconds
2/3/2017 10:35 AM EST
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R_Colin_Johnson
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Re: Perpetual-Motion Machines
R_Colin_Johnson   2/7/2017 9:36:18 PM
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Yes it does use electricity, but instead of electrolysis, which is never mentioned in the article, a protic ionic liquid containing labile hydrogen is used with a nickel-based catalyst that spits off the hydrogen using electricity. It may sound like electrolysis, but is 1000 times faster, however uses more electricity than stripping hydrogen from natural gas. Their next step is to optimize the process to increase its efficiency so that it is better (or at least equal) to using fossil fuels (natural gas) in electricity consumption.

Kevin Neilson
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Re: Perpetual-Motion Machines
Kevin Neilson   2/7/2017 3:46:50 PM
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You're implying there is not electrolysis involved when using this catalyst.  I still don't know where the energy is coming from if not from electricity.  A catalyst doesn't supply energy.

R_Colin_Johnson
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Re: Perpetual-Motion Machines
R_Colin_Johnson   2/7/2017 9:57:21 AM
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> what does it matter to the driver how long it takes to make the H2?

The faster, the cheaper the price at the pump, but the only way to do it quickly today is to use fossil fuels (natural gas).

The researchers point was that you no longer have to use natural gas to make hydrogen quickly. Electrolysis can make hydrogen from water, but is too slow to make it cheap at the pump. Their catalyst makes hydrogen fast. Next they aim to make it as efficient as natural gas, that is, fast and cheap.

Kevin Neilson
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Re: Perpetual-Motion Machines
Kevin Neilson   2/6/2017 9:55:26 PM
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Thanks; I tried to read the abstract, but it was very abstruse.  I don't understand the basics here.  Isn't the H2 for the fuel cell pumped into the car?  If so, what does it matter to the driver how long it takes to make the H2?  I don't care how long it takes to distill a gallon of gas.  I only care how long it takes me to pump it into the tank. 

TanjB
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Re: MiddleEast Exit Strategy
TanjB   2/6/2017 3:53:32 PM
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A favorite quote from Sheikh Yamani, about Saudi long term strategy

 

The stone age did not end for want of rocks.

TanjB
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fast is not efficient
TanjB   2/6/2017 3:51:57 PM
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This is far from commercial because of the low efficiency.  As someone suggested, perhaps useful in a military context.  The key problem is efficency.  Heck, if you do not care about efficiency just burn the natural gas in a turbine.  There are high temperature fuel cells which can reform NG and generate electricity at around 60% efficiency, and there are also combined turbine generator / district heating setups in that range too.

Gas is going to be disruptive for a decade or two.  When the new Appalachian pipelines come on line it will complete the displacement of coal in the USA except for the open cast mines in the northern plains which consume locally and export electricity.

Natural gas vehicles have been around for decades.  But during the decade or two which natural gas dominates we probably will see a continued rise of renewable electric, both for vehicles and increasingly on the grid.  One of the values of gas is it is suitable for turbines and other generators which respond quickly.  So it is a good partner for renewable until utility scale non-carbon storage is solved.

Oil is kept under control, but the big casualty has been and will continue to be coal.

R_Colin_Johnson
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Re: Still Hydrogen Storage
R_Colin_Johnson   2/6/2017 3:38:27 PM
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Yes, there are many chanllenges infrastructure-wise. BMW and others have demonstrated hydrogen fueled cars they claim are safe, but this report does not address any of those issues, but merely shows a fast way to produce hydrogen without relying on fossil fuels (natural gas is the easiest fuel to convert to hydrogen).

HankWalker
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Still Hydrogen Storage
HankWalker   2/6/2017 12:01:43 PM
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Aside from the fuel cell catalyst mentioned in another comment, there is still the problem of transferring fuel to the vehicle and storing it. To me the main benefit of this faster hydrogen generation process is that fuel could be generated at service stations or home. But there are several challenges. First, due to limited electrical power, hydrogen would need to be generated and stored prior to refueling. Second, it is challenging to store hydrogen in a vehicle, currently using a very high pressure tank (5000 psi for Honda).

Electrolysis is relatively inefficient, especially since the oxygen is discarded. Hydrogen storage is inefficient due to the need to compress it to high pressure. I am not that keen to find out what happens when the tank is punctured in an accident. Consider what happened to Aubrey McClendon of Chesapeake Energy when his natural gas powered SUV crashed (or was crashed) into a bridge abutment. He probably died from direct crash injuries (no seat belt), but the fire burned everything up.

jnissen
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Re: MiddleEast Exit Strategy
jnissen   2/6/2017 10:35:13 AM
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Dennis, I thought my profile picture was bad!

R_Colin_Johnson
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Re: MiddleEast Exit Strategy
R_Colin_Johnson   2/6/2017 10:03:55 AM
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Yes, OPEC is buckling under to it, I suppose, which is good for us with production still high.

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