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AMD Fills Out Ryzen CPU Family

Mid-, low-end debut as high-end goes on sale
3/2/2017 09:00 AM EST
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goldstone77
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Re: It doesn't matter
goldstone77   3/5/2017 11:22:38 PM
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I think it is remarkable to not that we are dealing with an advertised node of 14nm. For AMD this is actually 17nm, and Intel is 13nm. Intel has been shrinking the process node smaller than the other 3 semiconductor manufacturers. Intel has used this strategy of shrinking the process smaller than anyone else for a very long time now. Not much change in architecture, but increases in clock speed. 5nm difference and actually coming back with a whole new architecture, and increasing its performance across the board and reducing power consumption vs. Intel has been a pretty spectacular feat for AMD. Sure, there are issues with motherboards bios, windows, and gaming engines not fully supporting AMD right now. That is going to change like usually bios will get update over the course of the next few weeks and months. Windows will release fixes for problems no recognizing real core and logic core memory allocation. AMD was smart and has made partnerships with a few prominent gaming manufactures Bethesda being one of the most recognized who promises to optimize games for Ryzen and Vega. Also, you will get an increase in API's like Vulkan which take advantage of the extra cores! While all these problems are getting hashed out, be on the look for Intel's 10nm (9.5nm actual) to come out. It will be a small victory for Intel if they make it to market before Global Foundries drops their 7nm (9.2nm) due around 2019. This will almost cut AMD's process node in half, which will bring another huge performance gain and reduction in power consumption! And for the first time AMD will have a process node smaller than Intel! By the time that drops most of the problems AMD has had with lack of bios, windows, and gaming engines adaptation would almost all be gone! Then another 50% increase in performance and 80% reduction in power consumption!

Gondalf
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Re: It doesn't matter
Gondalf   3/5/2017 4:14:54 PM
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Umm there are clear signs that the cpu power is not the best thing of Ryzen. We'll see on server boards, this core power disasvantage could give some issues in perf/watt. Under the infamous Cinebench the Zen core is power hungry and only the low plataform power save the flag. Performance has a cost and AMD has opened the internal buses too much to sport great peak scores IMO, we'll se what this will translate in a real server workload with a lot of threads. Hopefully the power consumption will not go out of control.

 

Gondalf
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Re: It doesn't matter
Gondalf   3/5/2017 3:57:57 PM
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I am not a gamer at al but 4K games are now pretty of niche and they are absolutely GPU bound. In 4K every cpu is the same so no reason to purchase a cpu more expensive than $150/200 but high clocked or overclocked.

It is a fact Ryzen is a disappointment in games and all forums around the web are saying the cpu was hyped more than necessary. In this moment Intel has no competition from AMD unfortunately in entusiast segment. Nothing is changed, in average Ryzen is slower than a cheap i5 cpu in games.

GSMD
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Re: It doesn't matter
GSMD   3/4/2017 9:42:43 PM
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I think you should be a little more professional in your comments about GloFo. I have or have had foundry partnerships with most fabs and that includes Intel. The 14nm FinFet process in question is a pretty decent process. It does not matter iff it is 10% less optimal than Intel. Total power and CPU throughput is the only thing that matters.

And I design OO processors for a  living. So I run my own CPU perf. lab. I am simply pointing out that AMD has focused more on core counts and gotten rid of a GPU. For performance in integers and FP, a GPU is wasted space. So unless you are running GPU accelerated tasks (for which an external GPU is a better choice anyway), the AMD approach does make sense. And yes, more cores does mean more performance. The drop in single core performance due to lowered speed is more than compensated by increased throughput. HT in fact uses the wide issue arch a lot better than single threaded workloads.core based pricing for SW exists for a reason. Most enterprise workloads, most engineering workloads , most new games prefer more cores and threads. Legacy PC SW does not but who needs anyhthing more than 2 Ghz there anyway. Come up with some data and we will have a useful discussion.

In any case, the high core speeds do not sustain, try running at 3.6 Ghz full tilt on any processor on all cores and you will see thermal throttling push the speed down a lot and it it stays there for a  while. So for sustained workloads, I do not trust 3+ Ghz speeds. Again this is data from my benchmarking. And yes Ryzen does show its worth outside a lab in non gaming workloads.

paul.jhnson
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Re: It doesn't matter
paul.jhnson   3/4/2017 6:41:19 PM
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Actually... It does not. Smaller die size does not mean better processor nor performance. AMD is using LiarFoundries for Ryzen, which has inferior specs compared to Intel (78 CPP versus 70 CPP). Intel's process is superior to LiarFoundries', which is not a surprise. Therefore, on average Intel can pack more inside a chip than AMD/LiarFoundries can.

If AMD did not fill in the full 49mm2, they are losing on precious space. So no, it is not an advantage at all.

Lastly, if you already committed to just released Ryzen/Core for High Performance, you are clearly a novice. More cores/threads does not automatically mean better performance/reliability under load. In modern architectures there is a lot more that goes into that. Gaming/Real time graphics is a High Performance application of sorts. In fact, it looks head to head in that application space where it matters most. Most normal applications, however, can't even utilize that many cores.

If Ryzen proves to be significantly better outside of the lab, it will force Intel to lower prices, and come up with a better processor soon. Intel's release early next year already looks to beat Ryzen. Price is the biggest advantage for AMD

GSMD
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Re: It doesn't matter
GSMD   3/4/2017 5:38:24 AM
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Actually the area does make a lot of difference if you think about it a little more. I am getting twice the no. of cores for the same area and lesser power. Naturally this is because of the lack of a GPU. But ignoring 1080p gaming,which is a niche by itself (if you are a serious gamer, you will use a higher resolution where for some reason, AMD specs are better), AMD creams Intel in multi-threaded performance (twice the cores, so a non-brainer). For the folks in this forum, I am assuming MT performance is everything. Most  eng.  tools (simulators , parallel makes, analytics engines)  tend to devour cores and threads. That is why in my lab, we stopped buying Intel processors as of this week ! My SW teams especially will not go back to a sub 8 core processor. Memory bandwidth is a concern but has not hit our workloads. So for engineers, there is very little reason to buy an Intel processor unless you have single threaded workloads (there are a few around) but even here an OCed Ryzen would be close. The benchmarks have been gaming oriented and hence misleading since the world presumably does a lot more with their PCs than just play 1080p games ! Maybe everyone does, who knows ....

 

paul.jhnson
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It doesn't matter
paul.jhnson   3/3/2017 12:50:24 PM
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"Ryzen has 44mm2 area - a 10 percent better area efficiency than a similar Intel CPU". It's a meaningless measure. I don't understand why AMD likes to bring this up like it's an accomplishment. Nobody cares if their system die size is 44mm2 versus 48mm2. All other specs (CPP, etc) are inferior when compared to Intel IMO. Realworld benchmarks will tell if AMD really has something. So far it looks like a close call to me, which doesn't favor AMD all that much.

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