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China's Tsinghua Secures $22 Billion in State Backing

4/4/2017 05:01 PM EDT
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ubm112211
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Re: China Investment in Fabs
ubm112211   4/7/2017 1:12:52 AM
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if SMIC could get sued and fined why can't other chinese comps?

all the hollywood movies got paid per view now in china.

 

the problem with the chinese is lots of them have no clue what integrity is. they hire someone for his knowhow and boot him/her when getting useless. this kinda of business practice won't go very far.

 

so as long as you understand what integrity really means and stick to it you should be fine.

paul.jhnson
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Re: China Investment in Fabs
paul.jhnson   4/6/2017 11:48:44 PM
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Do you think that China cares about patents? Once the Chinese government gets involved, the patent laws will be impossible to enforce, or even detect if infringed in China owned fabs. They will steal the technology as soon as they can get their hands on it if history is any indicator. Having the technology sit on their very own land only makes it much easier for them. Thanks to companies like LiarFoundries who announced they will build Fabs right in mainland China, the latest technologies will be transferred to Chinese hands in just a few years. For the Chinese, these deals are gifts from God, since these technologies are just a step away from state of the art; at the least. There is nothing stopping this. It will not be hard to take away Chinese workers from companies like LiarFoundries also, to come work in Chinese fabs.

With semiconductor scaling nearing it's end, a generation of process technology is not as much of a gap as it used to be. China is getting dangerously close to competitive IC technology, thanks to deals made by LiarFoundries, et. al. These companies are cash strapped (if you ignore foreign funding that's keeping them alive which will end sooner or later). With the right opportunities, they will happily hand over their technology to the China to satisfy their Saudi masters.

ubm112211
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Re: China Investment in Fabs
ubm112211   4/6/2017 8:45:07 PM
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Rexchip, Inotera... 

so good news for smart western investers in the end.

ubm112211
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Re: China Investment in Fabs
ubm112211   4/6/2017 8:37:09 PM
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On the otherhand those chinese companies might not get suffocated by patent owners. a bigger chance is they will implode. the chinese gvt dont have the business acumen to handle such complicate projects. they might evolve into GF style in the end and sell at low price to Micron or Samsong etc.

ubm112211
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Re: China Investment in Fabs
ubm112211   4/6/2017 8:14:14 PM
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For 3d Nand part , they had an agreement to use all cypress (spansion)'s patents and cross licensing agreement.

spansion invented charge trap stuff so they believe they are very safe.

On the otherhand, if they used free open disclosed patent out there which would save their R&D cost. it makes sense to just pay the patent owners whatever amount is fair. In the end they can still make their money as long as those patent owners won't over-over charge them.

 

Bertrand22
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Strengthening diplomacy
Bertrand22   4/6/2017 5:26:13 AM
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Lately the China-America relationship is improving financially rather than politically

bmccleanicinsights
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China Investment in Fabs
bmccleanicinsights   4/5/2017 1:22:03 PM
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Reports of $20, $50, $150 billion and more to be spent by indigenous Chinese companies to construct new IC fabs are rampant!  Only one problem, where's the IC technology to be used in these fabs going to come from? It should be noted that the technology thus far announced to be used in these new fabs has in every case been at least two generations behind what the market leaders in that segment are currently using or will be using when the new fab opens.  

Beginning in 2014, the Chinese sought to acquire technology by purchasing existing IC suppliers.  The Chinese had some early success in acquiring companies like ISSI and OmniVision, but most governments are now on "high alert" with regard to China's IC industry ambitions and future foreign IC company acquisitions will be very difficult to complete.  Essentially, the window of opportunity for the Chinese to attain IC technology through foreign company acquisitions is now closed.

There have recently been reports that the Chinese companies building their new fabs are hiring IC engineers from Samsung, SK Hynix, and Intel's China-based IC facilities.  This method has been proposed as one way for Chinese companies to "develop" their own IC technology as these engineers bring IC process knowledge/experience gained at their former employer with them.  In IC Insights' opinion, this is a very dangerous way to develop IC process technology.  

In 2003, in China-based pure-play foundry SMIC's second year of production, foundry market leader TSMC filed a lawsuit alleging that SMIC had hired more than 100 former TSMC employees and asked them to provide SMIC with TSMC trade secrets.  Moreover, TSMC alleged that SMIC infringed on five of TSMC's IC process technology patents (later expanded to eight patents).  In early 2005, SMIC and TSMC settled the lawsuit with SMIC paying TSMC $175 million and TSMC gaining an 8% stake in SMIC.  Prior to the settlement, a California jury returned a verdict against SMIC in the lawsuit filed by TSMC.

With the stakes so high, once the newly-opened Chinese-owned memory fabs begin production, expect the reverse engineering teams at Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron, Intel, Toshiba, and Western Digital (SanDisk) to shift into high gear by taking apart the new Chinese DRAM and 3D NAND devices to determine which of their patents are being infringed upon by these new memory players.  IC Insights believes that with the decades of high-volume DRAM and NAND flash production history of these major memory suppliers, it will be almost impossible to develop new DRAM and NAND flash technology without infringing on numerous patents within these companies' extensive portfolios.


It should be noted that regardless of outcome of China-based IC production in the long run, IC equipment companies are currently in a prime position to benefit from this massive spending spree over the next few years.  

The bottom line is: without competitive IC technology, China's IC industry goals are likely to fall far short of their expecations while burning through a massive amount of money.

Bill McClean, President, IC Insights 

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