Is it time to get rid of Daylight Savings Time?

11/4/2010 9:07 AM EDT

Get rid of Daylight Savings time. There was a controlled study conducted just last year in Indiana, because not all of the state makes the switch over to DST. Areas that did not switch saved more energy. The reason (according to the study): air conditioning takes more energy than lighting. People might not have the lights on as much because the daylight lasts longer into the evening (during DST) but they also use their air conditioning longer into the evening because the sun is out heating things up.

11/4/2010 12:51 PM EDT

Yes, I agree. We should stay on "Daylight Saving" time and drop the time-consuming and frivolously changing clock-adjustments.

Maybe doing away with it could be a constructive project on which Democrats and Republicans would cooperate in the new Congress?

11/4/2010 3:49 PM EDT

The question is: "should we then stay on Standard time or Daylight Savings time"? This day and age, it does seem pretty silly to short sheet ourselves one way or the other. I suspect that any energy savings on one side is largely offset by the other side.

In this part of the world, Daylight Savings time makes more sense to keep from my perspective. I find evening hours of daylight to always be more valuable than morning hours. But then, I'm a night person. Morning people might see things differently.

11/4/2010 4:35 PM EDT

Arizona is one of the states that always remains on Standard Time and if you've ever been here in the summer, you understand that we have WAY more than enough Daylight, and there is little reason anyone would want to "save" more of it!

As for energy savings, here that seems plainly obvious. When the daytime temperatures exceed 110 degrees F, the sooner it gets dark, the sooner it starts cooling off and the A/C can stop working overtime to keep the indoor temperature habitable.

Changing the clocks twice a year seems silly, but if we were ever inclined to do it here, I think we would be better off doing the reverse of what the rest of you guys do! Daylight Destruction Time -- move the clocks backwards an hour when the rest of you are moving yours forward an hour, so it could get dark here even earlier in the summer, and make the sunrise & sunset times more balanced with what they naturally are in the winter.

11/4/2010 6:58 PM EDT

Well I'll really show my age--back during the Nixon administration they actually canceled Daylight Savings Time.

The problem wasn't kids waiting for school buses, the problem was kids walking to school. I was one of those kids, walking to school under the pitch dark sky and it was pretty scary--there was more than one close call with a car. I remember reading in the paper about kids getting run over. It didn't take long for them to realize their mistake.

Of course now days everyone drives there kids to school so maybe it isn't an issue.

11/4/2010 7:09 PM EDT

Correcting what I just posted--Nixon made it so Daylight Savings Time never got canceled, which plunged Winter mornings into an extra hour of darkness.

11/5/2010 9:33 PM EDT

I would be in favor of stopping all the clock changes. In this new world we do live almost 7/24 with little time devoted to sleep. It really does not matter then what time it is we are up anyway. Lets do more constructive things like: change the time(s) that school starts and ends to co-inside better to normal parents working hours. Anyone who has tried to get teenagers up early could see the wisdom of the High School starting later and elementry school earlier (but not 7 try 8:30 or 9am). Make it easier to deal with the school busing and commuter traffic by skewing work hours and school hours. Would't it be nice to not get stuck behind a school bus stopping every 100 ft and wasting time / gas? Couldn't we somehow work it so that travel times and start / stop times enabled better traffic flow and thus generate a much more significant savings in fuel and time? Just wondering if there is a better way to save energy other than random clock changes twice a year....

11/6/2010 7:50 AM EDT

I completely agree with you Bill. Here in the UK, they claim it's good for school children as they do not have to go to schools in the dark with the clocks going backwards, but many have to come back from school in the evenings in the dark because of the switchover. As for farmers, I do not think this too much of an issue nowadays with industrial farming. All in all, it's something of the past that adds more trouble than it's worth frankly speaking....

11/8/2010 9:24 AM EST

I can't imagine adjusting the clocks actually results in meaningful energy savings. However, I do enjoy working in the yard during spring, summer, and fall. Having an extra hour to do so is a nice treat. And in the winter I HATE driving to work in the dark. So, the adjustment back provides a little mote light during the morning commute.

For those rather selfish reasons, I like the switchover. But I don't care for the all knowing government playing with the dates in the name of energy savings or national security or whatever there reason is this time.

In the end, I really don't care either way. I only want to pick a plan and stick to it.

11/8/2010 1:02 PM EST

I agree with most others here that the time switching twice a year is more trouble than it's worth. As for children going to school in the dark in the morning, my child still rides the school bus and he is indeed standing there in the dark waiting regardless of standard or daylight saving time. And he will not get home before dark now with the time change. Many children have early mornings and long days just like their parents.

11/8/2010 6:08 PM EST

Seriously: Is there anyone who thinks that changing clocks will actually slow down or speed up sunlight, alter our daily energy needs, or anything else? Does anyone think that "12:00 Noon" CAUSES lunch?

Changing clocks has always struck me as a curious practice for supposedly-enlightened 21st Century civilizations. It's kind of like "Pagan Sun God Worship Enforcement", isn't it?

We don't need to change the clocks: we have lighting, heating, and cooling on demand now: available 24/7/365.

11/9/2010 8:26 AM EST

This is one of those industrial age farming economy no one has removed from the innovation knowledge world. I see no benefits in this than small confusion the next day.

11/10/2010 9:24 AM EST

i think it's time to do away with daylight savings time.it is obs,in todays standards.in addition to using candles,it was to give more light in the mills around the us,which now most have gone to china or japan.

11/10/2010 12:02 PM EST

It is astonishing how many people, apparently including the author, are confused in their terminology! For the record, Daylight Savings Time is the time used in the summer months; Standard Time is used in the winter. Although the author states abolishing Daylight Savings Time, what he really means is that he wants to abolish Standard Time, and keep DST year round.

Similarly, one poster stated Nixon cancelled DST. Wrong! During the Nixon-era oil embargo, DST was kept in place for 18 months solid. And by the way, as one of the children who had to walk to school in freezing weather, ice and snow, and did not see the sun until my second class of the day during that winter, I can state this was a bad plan, at least for psychological preparedness for learning.

11/10/2010 12:50 PM EST

Dump daylight savings time. Whatever value it had has been gone for years. Now it just adds confusion & cost.

11/10/2010 1:19 PM EST

In this globalised world dailight saving causes a lot of confusion.

I live in New Zealand, being in the Southern Hemisphere, our daylight saving is approx 6 months out of phase with USA and UK. As a result my timezone shift with US Pacific Time can be any of 19, 20 or 21 hours.

Living in a rural area, I do appreciate the benefits of having extra daylight hours after work for farm chores, but that's not nearly as important for people as it used to be. The daylight is still there and us farming types could just get up earlier to get those extra hours.

11/10/2010 2:29 PM EST

Both of my grandfathers and most of my uncles (10 of them) were farmers all or part of their lives. They worked from the time they could see in the field until the couldn't. Daylight savings time was of absolutely NO benefit to them. They all detested it. Who started this myth that it is good for farmers?

I've read that Australia expanded DST for the olympics there to save energy that year. A comparison of energy usage between that year and the previous year showed and INCREASE in energy usage. That is pretty close to a controlled study.

11/10/2010 2:56 PM EST

What people often miss is that Franklin proposed DST as a joke! Read his original article carefully. It was satire! It helps to know that the French aristocracy was in the habit of retiring around 3:00 AM and arising at noon. Sure, that burns a lot of candles!

Since our product contains a day/date clock, changing the calendar dates a few years back cost us a lot in customer calls and software updates.

11/10/2010 3:57 PM EST

You apparently live in some child-free zone. I live in a suburb of Baltimore, not a rural area at all, and kinder garden age children wait on our corner for the school bus.

11/10/2010 11:01 PM EST

I save energy by riding my bike to work. But with the extended time of DST, it cuts 2 months of potential bike riding off the calendar, because it is too dark in the morning. It is also dangerous for school kids waiting for the bus in the morning.

The real reason that the daylight savings time is continued, and has been extended to more that half the year, is that people shop more when there is extended after work light. Not for energy savings, even though Reagan said it was for that.

11/11/2010 12:38 AM EST

In Asia, instead of daylight saving, there are changes in schools/office work hours. Concept is same but instead of changing clocks they change only the part which is necessary. I feel thats more convinient that changing clocks.

11/11/2010 12:11 PM EST

How about cancelling DST for a few years and observing the results. And to take a good idea from p_g, possibly change the times that we do things. Schools could start and end at times different than they presently do, and I am certain that they could adapt to a change in starting times during the year. Stores may actually choose to be open when the customers wish to shop, I have seen that change happen a few times, and restaurants may decide to be open when diners wish to eat. Farmers can milk the cows when they want to, since cows can't read the clock, and don't belong to labor unions.
Besides all that, keeping the clocks set would reduce the confusion that causes many a good bit of inconvenience.

11/11/2010 2:14 PM EST

Why not leave the clocks alone (Standard Time) so we are in sync with the rest of the world ... and let each business/school/etc. adjust its start/end time instead of forcing everyone to change their clocks? Already there is quite a discrepancy in daylight/darkness depending on whether you are on the eastern or western edge of a time zone. By letting each business/school/etc. adjust its own time, adjustments could be easily made to suit the desired particulars in the local community. No time change suits everyone, but more could be accommodated if each business/school/etc. could set its own times for starting the day and ending the day.

11/12/2010 11:52 AM EST

For a frame of reference, I looked up the sunrise time for rochester NY and in the summer it is as early as 5:30AM, and in the winter (with the clock switch) it is as late as 7:42AM.
So if we stayed on summer time, the sun would rise at 5:30 in the summer, and as late as 8:42 in the winter...
If we stayed on winter time, the sun would rise at 4:30 in the summer and 7:42 in the winter.
Once looking at that, I figured yea, there is a good reason for daylight savings since it's bad enough to be woken up by birds in the summer well before I need to get up. And similarly, it's no fun to go to work (or others to school) in the dark & cold winter.
So for anything more than about 40 deg from the equator it just makes sense to move around with the suns time.

11/12/2010 12:11 PM EST

Is there too much invested into DST switches in terms of computers and mobile devices programmed for DST and changing it back again could be a hassle?

11/12/2010 5:16 PM EST

If ever there was a case for a National Referendum to decide something, DST is it.

11/12/2010 5:17 PM EST

Go one step further and eliminate the time zone in the age of globalisation. Here is what the late Arthur C. Clarke wrote in "3001: The Final Odyssey" - "One minor surprise had been that the whole world was now on Universal Time: the confusing patchwork of Time Zones had been swept away by the advent of global communications." GS.Sunatori@HyperInfo.CA

11/12/2010 5:25 PM EST

I'd like to turn my clock back 10 minutes and reclaim the time I wasted reading this article.

11/12/2010 5:27 PM EST

As someone who likes to enjoy the sunshine, I'd much prefer we had DST in the winter and Double DST (or TRIPLE!) in the summer so I could enjoy the sun after work. I don't mind going to work in the dark, but I'd really like to come home and have a couple hours of sunshine to play outside.

11/12/2010 5:38 PM EST

Ditch DST ! The digits or hands on the clock hanging on the wall has no effect on the amount of sunlight that reaches a window on any given day. Maybe if a large grandfather clock is blocking the window. I do enjoy the Constant Standard Time most of Arizona follows. I was saddened to see Indiana and Mexico cave into the DST clock drill. If the governments of the world feel they need some make-busy task for the citizens. Have us all plant or water a tree twice a year.

11/12/2010 5:50 PM EST

Here's one you all will really hate: Ditch Daylight Savings Time AND Time Zones! Put the whole country on GMT (properly called Coordinated Universal Time) and let the school districts set their own hours, whatever works out best for the students. I have found only one small benefit from the semi-annual time change - it requires me to test the batteries and adjust the clocks in the house.

11/12/2010 6:28 PM EST

I grew up on a dairy farm. The cows did not care one bit what the clock on the wall said, they wanted to be milked at the same time of the day based on the Sun.

I now have another problem, my alarm clock which is several years old has an automatic daylight savings time adjustment feature.

The problem is, it applies the old rules for determining when to adjust time. So, I now have to adjust the time of that clock even more frequently than one that never self-adjusted.

So, how many other embedded systems that apply the current rules would have to be changed if we abolished the time shifts due to daylight saving time?

At least we don't have any timezones that are offset by 30 minutes in the USA.

11/12/2010 6:52 PM EST

Having grown up on a farm I can agree that DST had marginal value to farmers. But that is because farmers already lived and worked by the sun.

The need for DST was driven by the city folk who liked to sleep in longer and longer even though the sun was already up. DST just reset the clock so they were back in sync with the sun.


I say ditch standard time, get up with the sun.

11/12/2010 7:17 PM EST

It's that cicada rhythm that's the problem. If those darned insects would just quit with the drumming we could all get some rest! (Or maybe the copy editor is off his circadian rhythm thanks to the time change.)

11/12/2010 7:42 PM EST

The sad part of this entire discussion is that "docter_t" is the only one who picked up on the difference between bugs and the clock. The cicadas do not know anything about circadian rhythm, they just follow it and sing on solar time. Its only us dumb humans that try to move the sun.

11/13/2010 1:24 AM EST

Those who come after us will look at the daylight savings time changes and smile. They will also wonder why it took us so long to end that travesty.
Karl Williamson

11/13/2010 3:07 AM EST

DST has no effect on the amount of sunlight. It has a vast social effect and that is the point. I knew a couple who tried to stick to summertime one autumn after the time change. They were determined and they managed to do 4 weeks before they joined everyone else.


On a separate point, a single world-wide time won't help. Sure, if I call a meeting at 0900 in some universal time then everyones clocks will show 0900 at the same time, so we all know what 0900 is, no question.

But suppose that the call is between me (UK) and my client (California). The basic problem hasn't gone away - I have to work out when our workdays overlap and schedule the meeting for that time. I would still have to work out a time difference but without the help of the timezones.

So each state (or district?) would evolve an offset: "When do you start your workday?" "1300 universal." Or "What's your workday offset from Universal?" "13".

And then it would be legislated, and then we'd have timezones back again.

And then somebody would observe that in the summer in the UK, an offset of 8 is much better than an offset of 9 and ... and round we go!

11/13/2010 4:46 AM EST

I absolutely agree! Ditch Daylight Saving and stick to one continous time line. Mankind is always a bit behind. Computers already solved this problem and stick to one universal time, which is globaly available.
In a global world this might be the next step in "time-evolution". It's just a matter of getting used to it.

11/13/2010 5:32 AM EST

To decide whether removing this practice, is a good idea or not, we dont need to speculate. Just take a look around. In countries like India, there is no such concept. Schools, work places and institutions change their timings seasonally to make people comfortable. But, since this is not systemic, not everyone is bothered. For example, you dont have to adjust your schedule just because someone living 1000 miles away is finding it hard to reach school while it is dark! Bottom line is that, people adjust to what they feel is comfortable. We should let them decide according to their local conditions instead of implementing a nationwide scheme, on some silly and unscientific pretext.

11/13/2010 1:28 PM EST

As an old Indian friend explained to me:
Only the white man can cut off the top 12 inches of a blanket and sew it on the bottom of the blanket and claim that the blanket is longer.

11/13/2010 6:37 PM EST

I think service industries have a tough time with timezones as it is - they either need to be 'on call' for pretty much the whole East-West US timezone working-day-span, or they have to set up local offices that stay in step with PST, EST, whatever. With daylight saving we are talking about shifts in 'latitude time', so we need north-south timezones to allow local optimisation. Other countries have their own issues: Japan, for instance, has a much bigger N-S span than the US.

11/13/2010 11:56 PM EST

In all of China, there is only one time zone. Evidently, they handle it. This is not "Daylight Savings Time" but the effects or consequences are similar.

11/14/2010 12:03 PM EST

The whole thing is a fantasy dreamt up by politicians. Go to Greenwich, London, UK, and you will find the international meridian (it has to reside somewhere, and we thought of it first).
The world is round (360 degrees worth), and so the time zones change so that as you navigate around the world, 12:00 midday is indeed Noon (when the sun is at its peak).
Anything else is as absurd as rounding PI to 3 to make the arithmetic easier.
And, yes, it is absurd that the home of GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) changes its time twice a year).

11/14/2010 7:30 PM EST

In Australia, many states have daylight saving, they were decided at referendums and people voted them in, - principally so they could enjoy the longer evenings with their family.
In Queensland we don't have it as the north half of the state is dead against it, - too close to the equator, - no benefit, but the southern part of the state keeps trying and may succeed one day.
On the watches point, who wears a watch these days? - we all have mobile phones and they change themselves to local time zones anyway.
Geoff.

11/15/2010 7:28 AM EST

I like Daylight savings time - I do not like standard time. We should adjust to Daylight savings permanently, saving the hassle of changing the clocks.
I like the DST because I like to see some daylight when I leave work. It gives me the impression that I have another life to live. I don't mind going to work in the dark, but coming home in the dark is a drag.
If I have to work overtime - I just come in earlier. It has the advantage of less traffic, and less early moring distractions, hence less stress and more productivity for me.

11/15/2010 7:56 AM EST

Ben Franklin only had one watch, the country only had one time zone. After WWII some argument for saving energy was plausible, but no longer true in an air-conditioned environment (State of Indiana data). The world is connected on a 24x7 schedule and semi-annual clock adjustments is archaic. It tends to be a Northern latitude affliction as well.

11/15/2010 9:25 AM EST

There are 24 hours in a day. It does not matter what name you assign to the hours or whether you call it Standard Time or Daylight Savings Time, there are still 24 hours in a day.

11/15/2010 1:15 PM EST

Active thread. I vote for living on standard time. 1) is the solar definition, not political 2) With so much engineering interface with Asia, it reduces time difference, now that has real effect on family time.

11/15/2010 2:49 PM EST

Getting up earlier may save "candles" and other lighting expenses at the end of the day, but what about heating for those cooler mornings up north? What about an hour extra of air conditioning for the rest of the country when they come home during the hottest hour of the day, instead of using the far more efficient industrial A/C at work? What about all the extra driving people do to take advantage of the extra afternoon time?

And if farmers want to get up an hour early, why do they need to change my clock? I hereby give them permission to set their alarm for whatever time they want to get up, regardless of what my clock says.

11/16/2010 3:23 PM EST

I've never understood the alleged logic of DST. It makes a lot more sense to adjust the start and stop times of schools and the like than doing a global time change. One time, like one size never fits all. As for farmers, I suspect they've always followed the sun rather than the clock anyway. Only us urbanites and suburbanites are slaves to the clock. The only possible real value it has anymore is as a reminder to replace smoke detector batteries. There has to be a better way.

11/17/2010 5:08 PM EST

I think the whole world should switch to GMT. Several industries use it already. When you are making a call to another part of the country or another country you wouldn't have to figure out what time it is there. Who cares what time you go to work or come home. It is just a number.

11/19/2010 4:34 PM EST

As JohnBeattie said:
"So each state (or district?) would evolve an offset: "When do you start your workday?" "1300 universal." Or "What's your workday offset from Universal?" "13".

And then it would be legislated, and then we'd have timezones back again."

A lot of banks, post offices, and stores chains have set hours: 9-5, 7-11.

With one universal time the hours would depend on what town it is in. And different places would draw their 'open store' boundaries different ways. As JohnBeattie said, you're right back to timezones again, except every business is drawing them differently leading to total chaos.

11/24/2010 1:09 PM EST

We should eliminate Daylight savings time. I agree with Bill that it is all politically motivated. Whenever we leave anything up to Congress, bad science prevails. They are incapable of making a logical decision. The latest shift in the timing of the fall switchover was to move the date until the weekend after Halloween. The rationale was that they didn't want kids to be out after dark on Halloween. So what do kids do - they still wait until it's dark to begin their quest for candy. All this shift managed to do is keep our kids up one more hour on a school night! I much prefer standard time. I'm tempted to move to Arizona just to get away from it all....

11/25/2010 6:12 PM EST

Interestingly enough there are places in the world that do not bother with a time change. I was on Maui on vacation and we almost missed the snorkeling trip because we assumed time has changed at night but it didn't...forget changing clock at home, I agree, I have close to 20, think about flight, train, etc schedules between places that are out of synch in time changes! Kris

12/5/2010 4:45 AM EST

Update 5 December 2010: The brit newspaper "the daily mail" is sponsoring an MPs campaign to make Summer time the standard for winter, and have DOUBLE daylight savings in the summer, thats right, GMT+2..! Words fail me

Pi=3.000

1/19/2011 12:25 PM EST

Here's food for thought.

In the hospital environment, DST adaption is a huge issue and consumes many man-hours. All clinical clocks need to be coordinated, both 'on the wall' and in the medical equipment. Some newer equipment does it automatically, but not all. Plus some slightly older equipment changes on the 'old' schedule, and then have to be set twice each cangeover - once for the 'official', then reset when the automatic change happens. hard to see how that benifits anyone.

5/27/2011 4:57 PM EDT

I propose we do away with DST and time zones too! Let's all switch to Greenwich time. I would go to work in the morning at 15:00 hours and go home in the afternoon at 00:00 hours. This may seem strange, but if I'm in a meeting with anyone in the world, 09:00 hours is 09:00 hours everywhere! No need to reset clocks, or to figure out time zones anymore. Businesses would start at the time that makes sense to them; perhaps an hour after sunrise or so.
(This is slightly tongue in cheek, btw)

6/8/2011 4:29 AM EDT

The whole idea of n time zones and
so called 'Daylight saving' is inherited from early days of mechanical clocks, steam railway,
incandescent bulbs. We live in different reality, generations ahead, used to use mobile phones, GPS, energy saving bulbs etc... flexi time at work etc.
Switching between summer and winter time is pure waste-of-time.

We should try to use not our time zones but more natural difference calculated from dusk to dawn between geographic locations.
If I have to call from Ireland someone in Texas, should just easily apply to his geographic location to let him get up and eat breakfast first when heading for my lunch.
What about simple PC and mobile applications to test the idea?
Mobile application of remote guy should allow me to get rough location of registered phone (not a breach of privacy that way)
and my app should tell me his geo time etc,
warn me not to call if it is too early or too late.
tom kawala

3/16/2012 11:00 AM EDT

Hmm so by not having daylight savings we have the sun heating things up for less time?? I'm not sure what planet that's true for, but last I checked regardless of what I set my clock to the sun is up for the same number of hours :-)

Jokes aside, If we stayed on daylight savings all year and were getting up in complete darkness and going to work and working in a building that is electrically lit it wouldn't really make any difference, because you have to get up and go to work anyway.

BUT then at the end of the day when I go home I would have so much more time to go gardening or play outside with the kids or go for a nice bike ride etc.

If on the other hand it were to be dark around the time I leave work (or soon after) I would be stuck inside and could only watch telly or play cards or something and get fat, nowhere near as healthy.

So with that in mind I'd go for 2-3 time shifts per year chosen so that I always have a good 3 hours of daylight left after work. Maybe it would help reduce the obesity epidemic :-) (I doubt it)

That said, just moving our working hours would have the same effect as others have pointed out, either way for me daylight hours after work are what I want.

12/14/2012 3:07 AM EST

I agree. Daylight Savings Time complicates our lives and can disrupt meetings, travel, billing, medical devices, and even sleep patterns. Although software can adjust computer clocks automatically, it is limited and is prone to errors, particularly human errors. Take the adjustment of watches, for example. I believe most people owned more than one watch and they don’t wear all their watches all the time, especially expensive timepieces such as a Swiss luxury watch. All you need is to forget to adjust the time for one of these watches and your schedule for your entire day will be messed up. - http://www.jzandf.com