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The Noble Profession

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ReneCardenas

5/31/2011 7:49 PM EDT

Rich, Agree that when looking from that angle there is clear biases as in ...

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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview

1/31/2011 12:04 PM EST

Yours is a reasonable opinion as far as the first part of my question goes ...

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EE vs. MD

Pocono Armchair Review

1/6/2011 12:06 PM EST

I read a surprising blog recently, elsewhere on the Internet (http://freshestfinance.blogspot.com/2008/08/engineering-vs-medicine-money.html), which compared the economics of becoming an engineer to the economics of becoming a medical doctor.  In the blog, the writer contended that you are better off becoming an engineer than a physician, because (supposedly) the hours are shorter, the school debt is lower, and, when these factors are included in the analysis, pay is supposedly better.

What the writer assumed in his analysis was that an engineer enjoys an unbroken succession of raises in his profession, which many reading this would argue isn't always true, I'm sure.  EE job succession isn't unbroken, let alone raises.  Moreover, the writer didn't take into account how easily an engineering task can be outsourced, compared to a medical task.  He also didn't take into account the limits on physician supply that are imposed by professional and accrediting bodies.  Engineers, on the other hand, have no such limits.  Most anyone who wants to be an engineer can be one, but that's not true about becoming a physician.

The comparison got me thinking about other aspects of the two professions, such as how well off individuals in each profession are concerning pay and job stability, but more importantly for my purposes, how relatively Noble each one is.

In the book, Sustaining the Dignity and Nobility of Medical Care, by Joseph V. Simone, the author reviews some of the failings of the medical profession.  He bemoans escalating costs and declining quality, as well as the battle between ethics and profitability. It sounds similar to the problems in the engineering profession, except that I would posit that we don't have escalating costs. If anything, I would expect that engineering salaries are dropping.  In fact, the IEEE reported that EE median primary income dropped in 2010 (http://www.todaysengineer.org/2010/Oct/salary.asp).

But regardless of the criticisms of the medical profession, most people can readily point to the good that it does (healing the sick, discovering new cures), and the good that it does for itself in the process (job and pay security though limitation of supply, plus almost no age discrimination for current physicians, as opposed to new entrants).

How many people on the street could point to the good that EEs do, and the good that the profession does for itself?  What would be their assessment of the Nobility of the EE profession?

I asked some friends, and they could all point to cell phones and computers as benefits to society from the labor of electronics engineers, along with electric cars as the benefit from electrical engineers, but those were all seen as conveniences--even as toys--rather than as necessities.  What about MRIs and life-saving medical electronics?  Yes, very useful, but associated with physicians rather than engineers.

And my discussions with fellow engineers concerning how well the profession takes care of its members, relative to how the medical profession takes care of its own, were as you would have expected: damning of the EE industry.  The writer of the blog praising engineering over medicine would have been surprised.

In the face of all that, what is the assessment of our profession's Nobility?  Before we answer, let's look at what one engineering school (at California State University) expects from its engineering students: “The desire and ability to preserve the nobility of the engineering profession in its dedication to the welfare of society by nurturing ethical and professional responsibilities.”  It says, dedication to the welfare of society.

So, please tell me, on the issue of EE vs. MD, who passes or fails when it comes to:

1.   dedication to the welfare of society, and
2.   the care and protection of the profession's members?

Which one is more Noble?
(Events occurring at recent IEEE holiday parties should not be used in your assessments.)


Rich Krajewski is an electronics engineer, editor, and amateur-radio operator [call sign WB2CRD].




prabhakar_deosthali

1/7/2011 7:56 AM EST

If we see the medical science today it is heavily dependent on the machines. You just have a sneeze and go to the doctor and he will write a series of pathological tests to verify that you don't have Malaria, typhoid, Swine-flu etc etc and then and then only he will declare that you have common cold. Such is the dependency of the medical profession on engineering nowadays that the doctors today have become like mechanics. With the hospitals becoming profit centers , I would not like to call the medical profession a noble profession. Because, the life is precious only for those who can pay the fat bills of the doctors. For today's doctors the monetary returns count more than the service of the people and welfare of the society.

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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview

1/13/2011 9:00 PM EST

I'd agree there are physicians who test right and left to avoid malpractice lawsuits. I guess EEs who are employees don't have to worry about malpractice insurance. The manufacturer of equipment designed by the EE would instead carry product liability insurance. I wonder how the EE landscape would change if EEs had to carry their own form of malpractice insurance.

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phoenixdave

1/7/2011 8:52 AM EST

"didn't take into account how easily an engineering task can be outsourced, compared to a medical task." Actually, many doctors offices now run with only a doctor, nurse, and receptionist. The tests are outsourced, the blood draw outsourced, the reading of any x-rays or cat scans is done in India, and the billing is outsourced.

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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview

1/13/2011 8:46 PM EST

I was thinking of US hospitals, I suppose, where most of the biotechnology can still be done in-house, but even there I imagine x-rays could be outsourced overseas, because it's easy to do when you have digital x-rays. (But what happens when the outsourcing presents a legal liability; for instance, can you have interpretations by overseas physicians not licensed in the US?) I'd still say that medical procedures are not as easily outsourced as engineering services.

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DrQuine

1/7/2011 10:25 AM EST

Physicians are essential in the short term because they can heal the sick (before they die). Engineers may have the potential to make life saving improvements in the world - but the benefits may be a long time coming while most businesses have very short term vision. The result is that engineers are at greater risk of layoffs and more at the mercy of economic cycles than physicians are. Engineers must also spend more time explaining their future value to their organization (which may be tempted to hire more sales people to get immediate revenue without regard to the lack of breakthrough products in the development pipeline for the future).

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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview

1/13/2011 8:49 PM EST

Well said and good insight. I hadn't thought of the role of short- and long-term benefits.

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ReneCardenas

1/30/2011 11:03 PM EST

Both of these professions are equally noble and should be promoted to future student equally, in my opinion.
A case can be made that in general terms a physician deals daily and directly with benefit on an individual basis, so it is more visible. In addition, most if not all physicians are required to up hold a “Do not harm” pledge.

Engineers do by their efforts make the medical care more effective with improved diagnostic devices and communication tools. Although engineers may not be held to a Hippocratic Oath, both professions have ethics at their core; both provide similar benefit to human kind.
In brief, a comparison is a futile effort to contrast two branches of knowledge; any attempt would only reflect the individual’s bias and perhaps their professional background.


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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview

1/31/2011 12:04 PM EST

Yours is a reasonable opinion as far as the first part of my question goes (concerning which profession seems more dedicated to the welfare of society), but I was also looking at how the two professions protect their members. In other words, I was looking at how they are practiced, rather than at their function or the intent behind their practice. They are both critical functions, naturally, and are worthy pursuits in terms of their benefit to humankind. However, one profession suffers less from age discrimination, and protects its members more effectively in the job and financial security department. Crucial differences, no? Differences we engineers could learn from, yes?

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ReneCardenas

5/31/2011 7:49 PM EDT

Rich, Agree that when looking from that angle there is clear biases as in regard to performance as individual ages.
I see your point regarding how differently these professions are rewarded.

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