Age survey results: Life's good if you're employed

5/19/2011 2:40 PM EDT

I grew up faster on my career AFTER my 40 years old. My greatest opportunity ever came at 48. Bottom line is: never stopped investing on myself in education.

5/19/2011 2:41 PM EDT

Since it's very hard to know if you've been passed over for a job because of your age, you should have asked:


Have you or your boss ever declined to hire someone because of their age?


That could be if someone is perceived to be too young (inexperienced) or too old (too expensive or out of touch).

5/19/2011 2:44 PM EDT

While working for a Baker Hughes division, the VP of Human Resources told a large gathering of people that the average employee age at that time was 42, and they had to do something to reduce that.

3 months later, I and 78 others were laid off. One was under age 45.

5/19/2011 3:04 PM EDT

I've been on both sides of this fence. As a self-employed consultant, if age discrimination is a major deal, I'd be in big trouble because I'm constantly being "hired". Likewise I have been used by several companies I do work for to screen applicants, both consultants and potential employees.

I think in particular of an interview a number of years ago with one engineer about 60 years old who had been out of work for a year. He was applying for a position developing embedded firmware. His only experience was on 10 or 20 year old 8 bit CPUs. He didn't even have much PC experience. I had to tell him, "Go get yourself a PC. Learn it from top to bottom. I know money is tight, but you have time on your hands. You must update your skills if you are going to be competitive." He had been in a comfortable niche in a large company where he was mostly a paper pusher. When they downsized he was an obvious candidate to let go and he was totally unprepared for a real engineering job.

The hardest part is staying current. Those who do will fare well, even if they have to make a move. Those who don't . . ,

I'm sure there are HR people who worry about retirement costs and increasing health costs, etc. But in the big picture, those who can deliver can always find someone who needs them.

5/19/2011 3:28 PM EDT

BS, It's all about costs now, and older employees (engineers or Janitors) will be first to get fired to cut costs no matter what their skills. Fact of life or unrestrained capitalism? Sucks either way. So I say, kill the young before they have a chance to growup and take your job ;)

5/19/2011 4:27 PM EDT

"In fact, according to the survey, of the 16 percent of all respondents who said they are currently out of work, half have been jobless for at least two years. Of that, 80 percent are over the age of 50."

Good stuff, Brian. The above says a lot.

5/19/2011 4:40 PM EDT

Or all this could be related to simple economics. If you are over 50 you make more compared to engineers who are 35 and do similar job. So then during any downsizing guess who will be obvious target.
When looking for job "experienced" guys ask for more again and you can not drive them as hard as guys between 30-40 who have young kids, wife at home etc. who will handle more abuse for less $$. I really think it as simple as that.

5/19/2011 5:27 PM EDT

All this, as mentioned above, certainly is related to economics. However, I wonder how ageism much is also related to younger managers fearing senior team members who know more, not less, than they do?
One job interviewing strategy, if you have the required technical background, is pointing out that you'll require very little if any supervision or direction (painless management benefit) since you've been down the path many times, know what needs to be done and can execute without any hand-holding. I've worked for several people quite a bit younger. They got this and appreciated it, including when they were able to consult on problems and get immediate and effective solutions.

5/19/2011 7:58 PM EDT

Advice - Dont do the family thing!
Save half of your pay checks, and
when the age thing happens,
youll be flexible enough
to Casually start consulting.
Age doesnt seem to affect consulting opportunities (i think).
Companies are loathed to pop for
top salaries and bennies
for older full time engs.
Corporations are cheap!!!

5/19/2011 9:50 PM EDT

I've just turned 61 on contract basis. Lucky that I am still needed to extend. On second thought, perhaps 'we' should form a consulting company contributing our various highly experienced expertise. Members (those having valid reasons as in this discussion) would be at least 5o yrs old. Consultation awarded would be offered to typically 'fairplay' companies....and so on...

5/19/2011 10:01 PM EDT

never was unemployed since I arrived in 1985, retired when I was 70, but still working since electronic engineering for mi is not a profession, but a call,I enjoy problem solving, often fixing others not so fortunate designs, I do from DC [power-supplies] to Microwaves/fiber-optic, now I am learning software, and never worry about jobs.

5/20/2011 12:03 AM EDT

THe problem with the phrasing of the question is that this is perception rather than fact.

Unfortunately many people would like to believe that they have been passed up because of age rather than because they have some new skill. Many people see those as synonymous.

If you turn up and an interview and try to tell the people how great an 8051 assembler programmer you are, then don't expect to get the job.

In this game you need to keep refreshing your knowledge. Can you program ARM devices? Have you worked with embedded Linux? If not then why not?

No matter how old the body is, you can still have a young mind ( with a bit of wisdom too).

5/20/2011 10:17 AM EDT

A

5/20/2011 4:40 PM EDT

In 1969, my father was laid off from Philco-XXXX Aerospace. At that time, he was 57, nearing retirement age. As it turns out, many people approaching retirement age (by age or by years of service) were laid off.

This saved the companies millions of dollars from having to pay out retirement benefits.

After a few years, and many complaints from affected individuals, the Federal government passed a law, Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, aka ERISA of 1974.

5/21/2011 11:51 AM EDT

The only way to keep job is to update the knowledge levels n don't take cushion in any company.

5/21/2011 5:06 PM EDT

Every time this question comes up I flash back to a young engineer hired right out of college. He told me how relieved he was that he wouldn't have to study anymore. If he kept that attitude, then he is probably out of a job today. The world changes constantly, and technology changes even faster. When I hear about someone close to retirement who got laid off I have to wonder if they slacked off on learning.

Larry M.

5/21/2011 11:27 PM EDT

Some lessons for the young engineers in this article are: use the company resources as much as possible to upgrade the knowledge before its too late.

5/22/2011 9:15 AM EDT

Staying current:
In general what you do professionally (as part of your job) is where your skill set comes from. Your hobbies are HR fluff (one notable exception I know has bee out of work 8 months). If this is true, "staying current" is a function of the company and sector where you work. Continuing education is the same way - upgrade your skills, but if you don't use them in your job it doesn't matter. Hard but true, the job you have defines your marketability (advice to younger engineers).

What that implies is that you need to follow technology and change jobs to ensure you don't stagnate. Given that the best products come from stable coherent groups that solution reduces the general quality and success of organizations. Hmmmm, we may have a shared responsibility here. Yes corporations are "for profit" but the good ones get it. If you are not in one you are at risk.

Age discrimination:
The numbers don't lie, and these numbers are reproducible. The factors are myriad but include money, perception (flexibility/vitality), and the old ax that is easier to get a job when you have one (desperation is unattractive as you may have noticed at the bar).

This is a quandary, and to pretend it does not exist, or that somehow the "unfortunates" are to blame is ignorant at best or simply heartless. Think about it.

If you do well and advance you are competing for one of fewer jobs (hierarchy exists). If you try to step down you end up "overqualified" (why hire that guy since he will just leave when a better offer comes along).

If you stay "safe" and keep your head down then you obviously don't have the talent or ambition to advance. You're not a go-getter. Why should we hire you?

My advice:
Do what you enjoy and invest as much as possible in your 401K. Above all don't loose your job when you're older. The numbers don't lie.

5/23/2011 3:08 PM EDT

Personally, I wouldn't want to work for a company so limited in its thinking that they practice age discrimination. I don't care about the odds because I need only one job at a time.

My advice is just the opposite of dsholland's. Study your technical material but be prepared mentally and emotionally for a layoff any millisecond. Get three books: What Color is Your Parachute?, Guerilla Marketing for Jobhunters, and Think and Grow Rich (public domain so free these days). Study all three. Get good at job search.

Never turn down any assignment offered even if it's not quite your usual line. You never know in advance what you might learn and when that will come in handy in future. I have worked in development, QA/test, technical writing, supervision, management and feel qualified to do almost anything. I am easy to manage and to work with.

Be able to move to a new city for a good job. This last year I turned down a short term contract in FL for a full time job in TX. 5 weeks into that job, I got a better offer in PA (45% more money) so I moved there. Moving in one's 60s is a challenge, but quite doable. I plan to work into my late 90s. Join Forty Plus if there is a chapter in your city.

Manage your morale (most important single task during a job search). Don't look for any job, look for your favorite job. Daydream about what you have liked and hated in prior jobs, and use TaGR to call out to that perfect job. This is what Parachute calls a life changing job search. If done correctly, you will find that wonderful job.

5/30/2011 12:03 PM EDT

In general, nobody will tell you strait in your face about your age, they are not that "rude".
They have 101 reasons to disqualify you, bottom line they are in driving seat, do not have to tell you real reason anyway.

4/10/2012 1:33 PM EDT

no-one is ever laid off or not hired because of their age - it's always for some other reason, and those are easy to invent.
Forty years ago, they could say to you "you're too old" and at least you knew where you stood. Legislation makes liars of all.

4/10/2012 5:17 PM EDT

It's easy to forget that correlation does not equal causation. I think that's at the root of a lot of age discrimination. If a younger hiring manager has seen a high percentage of older applicants not having the current required skill set, he or she may likely incorrectly assume that it's age that causes the skill deficit.

It's really not though. You can find highly skilled as well as marginally skilled individuals or any age. In my kind, the key is to keep educating yourself. The classes you took 30 years ago may be irrelevant but the ability to teach yourself is not. You can be a total hotshot PASCAL programmer on 8-bit machines, but that won't help you get a job in a C#, MVC, Visual Studio shop unless you've found a way to add those skills to your knowledge base.

Keep humble too. In the same sense that being old doesn't mean that you aren't able to do the job, being young doesn't mean that a manager or engineer can't be effective.