Obama, jobs and the creative destruction of electronics

9/6/2011 10:51 PM EDT

I like the term... "Embrace destruction". This is a way to boldly go forward. To embrace destruction of the old in order to welcome the new.
This also reminds me of measuring our age not by the years we have lived but by the dreams we have. The desire to keep on, and the projects that we´re working on.
Start ups are the answer... we have to re'invent ourselves and by doing so, we´ll be finding the answers and solutions to the current demands. I couldn´t agree more. Let´s see what the President will say...

9/6/2011 11:42 PM EDT

The answer is get realistic,
do a statistic of jobless folks, education level etc.

If most of them lower than high school then create some shoe factory, green job won't fix.

don't fool yourself, not all americans can do analytical stuff.

you invest in a group of low IQs and expect them to compete in hi-tek , it simply won't work.

9/7/2011 2:33 AM EDT

Too much 'micro management' of businesses by Government has never worked. I doubt if we would have ever stepped foot on the Moon if President Kennedy and his administration attempted to manage the project to the degree that existing and proposed regulations today hamper business. Set the large goals, and get out of the way as well as paving the way is what government should do if they really want to create jobs.

There is always a problem when governments attempt to set social policy by regulation.

Of course there are legitimate roles for government to play in the areas of consumer protection against fraud, consumer and worker safety, and broad environmental issues such as ensuring a clean (and protected) water supply and proper disposal/clean up of toxic materials.

Many of the laws on the books in these areas could be simplified or even eliminated in some cases, and would work a lot better if they were enforced instead of just piling on layer after layer.

9/7/2011 3:58 AM EDT

Think of newer and newer technologies. The population goes up regularly. NAturally every one need a job. New applications is the only solution. The new applications not to replace the older ones. Probably in the areas of agriculture, power generation, fuel and all other kind of consumables.Where ever there is a shortage of resources many jobs can be created to fill them up.

9/7/2011 4:50 AM EDT

Interesting comments... One thing I do not agree whenever I listen to the discussion like this is that all these people that loose jobs because of the new technology will go back to schools and learn new trades... Being engineer I am not against the technology at all. I'm just saying that it is easy to say that being an engineer or a politician - real life is more harsh - most of these people will start drinking and enrol on social welfare. Start wondering how many of the kids of these people will get a proper education? Who is going to be their role model? Drunken dad? Not-reading-books mum? In all our greed we forget one basic think - to be proud of the work we do, no mater what the job is. Being proud of the work gives great boost to your kids. We have too many non-skilled people with no perspectives and no motivation and still we're creating more high-skilled jobs.

Look at the last riots on London - that is the society of the future - no skills, no motivation, just pure greed - just like their role models: politicians and celebrities. And there are more of them then us...

9/7/2011 6:45 AM EDT

How about Federal loan guarantee to those U.S. solar firms in the Obama government? Look at this Solyndra LLC, it had obtained a $535 million federal loan guarantee in 2010. But now, it declared that they would be filing for bankruptcy. What could be the reason behind? Article same subject is [url=http://www.newsytype.com/10807-solyndra-bankruptcy]Government-supported Solyndra declares bankruptcy[/url] .Financial management is really crucial and risky in an organization considering it's asset, liabilities and income. The SWOT analysis can identify its annual performance and can determine possible strategic solutions either for survival or for dissolution in the business industry.

9/7/2011 12:28 PM EDT

Responding to IBM221 and a little thread in Mac_Droz's comments: Point taken. I do think as many people in the workforce as possible should always strive to move up the value chain, but some people are really good at one thing. Let's take manufacturing (IBM221's shoe factory reference). We've offshored manufacturing because it supposedly can be done cheaper. But when you do that, you lose the tight feedback loop you had when you owned the factory.
As I went around the Midwest this summer on the first leg of the Drive for Innovation, I was struck at how many of the systems companies I met have manufacturing close by. Most did it because they work too quickly to sit around and wait for prototypes to come back from China and they want excellent Q/A that only comes from overseeing your factory or your manufacturing partners directly.
So, there's hope that we'll get back in the manufacturing game and that's always good for employment.

9/7/2011 2:26 PM EDT

I think that no matter what Obama says it will be criticized to high waters.
Since we are quoting opinions from today's sages, I offer another one, that of Tom Friedman in the NYT. He ain't a super-sage, but he sure sounds good, and the president should heed his advice: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/opinion/friedman-the-whole-truth-and-nothing-but.html?ref=opinion

9/7/2011 3:29 PM EDT

Nic, great link. Thanks for that. Interesting that Friedman quotes a retired diplomat from a country that's been pretty good about keeping its people in line.

I'd need to read the original piece, but I'd beg to differ that democracies are failing. You can't call the Eurozone a failed democracy if the democracies that comprise it are still healthy. You can, however, say that some convenient amalgamation of countries is not working. And to say democracy is broke in this country is a stretch. It works perfectly well: we may not like that wild back-and-forth/ADD results we see in big elections, but the system works.

That said, I'm really intrigued by his "big lies" logic. It's true and it's disturbing. Now if the president stands up tomorrow night and says "government can't solve all your problems and if you're been unemployed for more than two years, you might want to rethink your location, career, assumptions, skillset and act accordingly" well then that would be an historic speech!

But it won't happen. A liberal politician can't stand up and repudiate his base's core assumptions in the same way a conservative politician can't stand up and repudiate big business. It's career-i-cide.

Meanwhile, the rest of us out here in the real world soldier on.

9/7/2011 3:31 PM EDT

Technology is transforming the society since Industrial Revolution. There will be job disappearing and there will be job created. The job market or economy as a whole acts like an ecosystem. According to study, most jobs are created by SMB. If the administration sets the right tone and direction of where US economy goes and acts right, jobs will likely be created. On the other hands, if the middle class can spend, more products will be created and new jobs will come. Lately, there have been voices of strengthening the middle class. Here comes an article for your enjoyment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/opinion/sunday/jobs-will-follow-a-strengthening-of-the-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all%3Fsrc%3Dtp&smid=fb-share

9/7/2011 3:43 PM EDT

I would be astonished if anyone expected anything at all to come out of a politican's speech, in this particular regard. Confound it, guys, he is not a magician, he is not a businessman, he is not an enterpreneur. He was elected to be our PRESIDENT, not our dictator.

We lead. He represents us, our interests. Yes, he is the Commander in Chief. That is a military title ONLY. The Commander in Chief *of the DoD*. Not of the citizens.

The best he can do is to propose and encourage government policies that are more friendly to business. The government is mostly clueless about running businesses, and he, for one, has no experience at all in this. Why would anyone think he can fix the problem of jobs? I don't get it.

9/7/2011 5:23 PM EDT

I'm having a hard time visualizing where the new jobs are going to come from. The computer changed everything. We may be a knowledged based economy, but most of the people do it themselves. There is no need for all those people that used to do the research. I wish someone could tell me otherwise, but I just don't see much of a jobs recovery in the near future.

9/7/2011 5:38 PM EDT

I agree with Bert, and it's not only the president, but the federal government overall that is powerless to actually create private sector jobs.

The best thing Washington can do for the economy is to stop trying to engineer the economy -- stop giving favors to some, penalties to others, and stop trying to steer the direction of economic development.

Green technology initiatives are a great examples of misguided government attempts to steer economic and technological development. However much many of us might want these to succeed, however good it might make us feel to reduce our impact on our environment, the marketplace -- not government policy -- will ultimately decide on success or failure of these initiatives.

Even with a half billion dollar loan from the government, Solyndra couldn't make a viable business out of rooftop solar panels. Will other companies make viable businesses out of smart meters? Home automation and energy management? How about all-electric vehicles?

Only time will tell -- time, and the cumulative effects of millions of consumers voting with their wallets.

9/7/2011 8:31 PM EDT

Eloquent as always, folks!
For BobSound, here's how I approach that "unknown." If we were having this conversation in 1975, we'd be saying "how are we going to replace all these steel jobs?" We could never envision in the course of a few short years that electronics design would expand out of the mil-aero world with places like Route 128/Silicon Valley coming into prominence. Nor, I'd argue, would we have said "you know? in a couple of decades there will be armies of young college graduates who will work endless hours, sleep under their desks, eat free pizza and take long ping-pong or bocce ball breaks encouraged by their employers all because they love coding."
That's one of the few things that keeps me optimistic in dark times: We can never predict the unknowns.
Right now, we're entering (broadly speaking) the era of apps on readily available electronics systems. Next will be open-source hardware (Arduino). What happens when you put that power in the hands of millions of people?

9/7/2011 8:49 PM EDT

Cool, let me offer my 2nd hint (mentioned b4 somewhere).

US need to reform it's political system, ie introducing a PM position.
Current US system put all burden on the shoulder of one man - president. He need to be a genius in everyfront. unfortunately you always get a good lawyer.

a good lawyer could be just naive in macro economics as we are seeing right now. After couple of years of learning and failing you switch to a different one and repeat.

Look at china and russia, they both got someone good at laws etc to handle diplomatic, political stuff and someone experienced with economy to handle job creation.

hope this can enlighten the poor american ppl..

9/7/2011 9:47 PM EDT

It is possible that the revival of a company like Heathkit may do more to create technology jobs by getting kids interested in electronics and subsequently becoming entrepreneurs, than any jobs program might do.

9/7/2011 10:47 PM EDT

To NOT prevent creative destruction or new business emerging, the government should do is DON'T do any stimulus. Let the economy metabolism work naturally, so that the ingredients occupied by those unhealthy, fragile, bloated, ineffective companies can be released to cultivate others.
Then the economy system can regain her liberty to adjust herself to survive in this world.
Reminding that all resources are limited, any government's stimulus no matter monetary or fiscal, is kind of redistribution and can cause deep impact that not revealing obviously on those economical figures like GDP, CPI,etc.

9/8/2011 7:12 AM EDT

What government can do best to create jobs is to encourage the entrepreneurs who will create jobs. Empower people to do business and such small small businesses will create thousands of jobs.

9/8/2011 9:34 AM EDT

It's a big debate over the effect of the Recovery Act on long-term jobs. There seems to be insufficient data one way or the other to say anything for sure, but you can find opposing conclusions drawn from the right and left. Mr. Fuller has chosen to draw from sources on the right.

You can also extend this to government stimulus in general, and you'll find economists who'll say the USA should have poured more money into the economy as well as those who'll say they poured too much.

I'm just an engineer. I know my job exists in part due to green stimulus money. I know that tightening EPA regulations has improved our business. I know that in the past fourteen years I haven't seen my salary increase in inflation adjusted dollars, and I've seen my spending level decrease (even with the tax cuts). I've never seen any benefits to myself or the country from tax cuts and deregulation. I've only seen jobs leave the country and income disparity increase.

9/8/2011 2:33 PM EDT

Great article Brian, maybe you should chair jobs council not Immelt ;-)...Kris

9/8/2011 5:11 PM EDT

Kris, I'll only do that if you'll join me (!) and if I could be sure that whatever president we worked for would be open to our findings.

9/9/2011 9:23 AM EDT

Some friends from South Africa on a contract in the US for a large motor manufacturer told me this: They waited a week for a data cable to be installed for a PLC and SCADA job on a project running late. During the weekend they soldered up the 9 pin connector themselves and drilled a hole in the panel to connect up to their laptop. On Monday morning when commissioning, they were asked who put in the cable. They were then restricted to the cable quaranteen area for a week and not allowed to work on the job, even though it was late. That's the electrician union. Here in Australia, I have an M.Sc Elec Eng and done the Cisco courses plus cable termination courses, but employed in a PLC company was not allowed to wire up a 24Vdc panel or Ethernet cabling for in-house testing. It had to be an A-class electrician. I worked on motion control and three phase motors of 380VAC for years, but here the cable tag companies drive top-of-the line 4x4 vehicles while engineers are stiffled. Those are real problems. Have a look at the smoking areas in your companies. In Oz, complete with fire extinguisher, broom, shade cover, etc, and must have cost $20,000 to erect. Same price as a decent scope. Flowers installed at huge expense, but we did not even have PLCs on a desk for testing. Medi-evil thinking. Let's not start on the tax, or compliance issues.

9/9/2011 12:41 PM EDT

Kris, I think you and I should run as one ticket. Between us, I'm sure we can solve the nation's problems. (Then again, we'd need to be benign dictators for some period of time)...

; )

9/9/2011 2:41 PM EDT

Please read ssabat.wordpress.com for may analysis over the years. We need strong trade policy and have to reign on Wall street ( for some time until it is tuned for better) to bring jobs back. Tax-cut and social spending are not the answers. Those are old methods and they have not worked so far.

9/9/2011 3:21 PM EDT

Beginning of article:
"Another low light: A $59 million effort to train people for green jobs in California produced only 719 job placements, Brooks wrote, quoting a Times feature story."
So you're arguing the government shouldn't waste its efforts on retraining.

End of article:
"Those people left jobless by technology disintermediation don't shrivel up and die. They do what they have to do: go back to school for more education,..."
So we should provide incentives for more education. Oh wait, I'm confused.

9/9/2011 4:54 PM EDT

This comment is hilarious:

"They do what they have to do: go back to school for more education, re-market themselves, or learn software programming, etc"

Totally clueless!! A 50-yr meter reader is going to just go back to school, get a CS degree, learn java, and write apps for smartphones? Ok, let's forget how much educational background is required to do software. Where are they going to get the thousands of dollars to pay for re-education while also trying to survive? And who is going to hire them when they can hire newbies out of college? Clueless.

9/9/2011 5:54 PM EDT

Surprisingly, the US Constitution holds the answer. It says to "PROMOTE the general welfare". As a nation we have tried for many decades to PROVIDE the general welfare. It's wrong. You PROVIDE for the common defense, and that is a different thing.
The right approach by the government is to promote growth by fostering conditions favorable to growth, i.e. favorable to business. This could be done many ways, and handouts is not one of them.

9/9/2011 6:59 PM EDT

hi

9/9/2011 7:33 PM EDT

Innovation - wait a minute - didn't most of the money for technology in the 1980's came from tax payer's dollars funding Silicon Valley companies for the space race / star wars?

Real innovation comes from small companies with reduced bureaucratic / managerial overhead, but funding small companies is another bad joke, especially when large corporations become their "business partners" like in the millitary / government contracting sector and steal the money for guess what - managerial overhead.

Here what's happening in the old USA:

1. No government sponsored scholarships for engineering students. (Compare USA to China and India who pay for their students' education).

2. IEEE is inbedded with the management of large corporations, so nothing is done to lobby for #1 above. (How can a USA engineer with a minimun of $100k in student loans afford to take a job that requires a master's degree and only pays $45k per year? - only engineers who come from China and India can do that.)

3. What are we as engineers really creating?
A green planet, better standard of living, or a wasteland of dumped consumer gagets that get replaced every year or two? Has anybody bothered to look again at Maxwell's orginal equations to see if basic electrical circuitry can be re-engineered?

4. I blame the current economic situation on engineers who got their MBAs back in the 1980's and 1990's when the best way an engineer could make a large salary was to start a business, or become a manager. The engineers took their knowledge of systems into the business world and under corporate game rules created what we have today - the ways to make the bottom line greater.

Yeah it's all our fault! Were just a bunch of geeks and nerds who can't see the big picture because we're taking care of too many engineering and manangement details. Can we take the time to see how and what we do affects society and the entire planet. Finally, can we fix the mess we created?

Another engineer :-\

9/9/2011 10:03 PM EDT

Just go back to school and learn something new. RIGHT!! I am an engineer, I do electronic, electrical, mechanical, pneumatic, and hydraulic designs. I can program a PLC or a Motoman robot. Unfortunately in this part of the country an engineer must be able to do embedded software for automotive systems, and work with the CAN bus. It seems that the demand for general engineers has moved to some places like China and India. But I can't go to China, and don't want to go to India, so I am stuck. MY solution was to create a service company, and do all kinds of repair work, at an engineering level of competence, which it seems that people are willing to pay for. NOT AT ALL what I spent a bunch of years in school for, though. IF the president were serious about creating jobs, the first step would be to create confidence in the future, and that would require making changes to prevent the financial disaster from ever happening again. To avoid the skyrocketing fuel prices, make those who buy oil futures pay cash, instead of using credit. Just a few changes to assure that what was done before is now a felony, and then enforce the new laws. We certainly don't want to copy the government style s that some have suggested.

9/9/2011 11:31 PM EDT

Congress is so disconnected that they don't even know the skill levels of the unemployed. Corporations agree they don't see a growth opportunity in the USA compared to other countries. In this country the worker is treated as a liability rather than an asset. Businesses with record cash will just get richer and the unemployed will go off of the radar screen as soon as congress stops benefits, problem solved.

9/10/2011 2:16 AM EDT

So after all these comments from engineers about improving the economy who for one thinks that what they said will really bring jobs? I would guess-none, so, what Obama says is in a way as good as yours, an engineers.

9/10/2011 12:36 PM EDT

What it really comes down to is that our government has not been responsible with the proverbial "credit card." It's not a Democratic or a Republican thing.... just a stupidity thing. We need to get the jobs problem fixed first, and deal with the deficits long term. As for did the previous stimulus work? The numbers prove that the recession was about twice as bad as they had predicted, thus the stimulus should have been twice the size it was. I would agree that congress should have written the first stimulus better. They loaded it up with their favorite flavors of pork, instead of focusing on a specific jobs plan, and agreed with it being 40% tax cuts. Hopefully they will produce something more focused this time, and not diluted to the point it fails. One of the most promising things I heard during the President's speech was "The American Jobs Act will repair and modernize at least 35,000 schools. It will put people to work right now fixing roofs and windows, installing science labs and high-speed Internet in classrooms all across this country. Pass this jobs bill, and thousands of teachers in every state will go back to work. These are the men and women charged with preparing our children for a world where the competition has never been tougher. Americans who desperately want to work, will have more ladders out of poverty." While I appreciate and respect the comments about the futility of retraining some displaced workers, Education is crutial for the future and long-term, permanant solution.

9/10/2011 11:07 PM EDT

The function of Governments in a market based economy is first and foremost to protect property rights: physical and intellectual. The problem is and will remain that the US opened it's borders to countries that do not respect property rights thereby creating an extremely tilted playing field. China and Russia both are notorious at doing this with quota limit changes to full outright expropriation of entire industries.

9/11/2011 12:21 AM EDT

So the Government believes they can control the economy? If this is true then what happened in 1929, 1983, 2001, and 2008 when the economy tanked. It is like a person who continually wrecks a car saying they can get and keep the same car back on the road. BTW, My last job was designing smart meters and though utilities said it was what they needed, no utilities wanted to risk using an upstart small company ("No one ever got fired for buying IBM") so the boss killed the project and my job.

9/11/2011 2:27 AM EDT

Excellent points, thank you!

9/11/2011 1:09 PM EDT

As my grandmother used to say - "You're talking when you should be listening!"

9/11/2011 3:47 PM EDT

Mr. Fuller, this is supposed to be an engineering discussion, so it would be nice if you left your right wing slogans and talking points about "Obama is no good in anything he does" at home when you write a column here. I have a lot of disagreements with Obama's governing in the past 2.5 years, but just thinking about the alternative, a McCain-Palin administration, sends shivers up to my spine. And, looking at some of the present republican candidates, like Bachman or Perry, would make any logical and analytical person, with an engineering or scientific education, prefer 4 more years of Obama, as wobbly and as clueless as he has been time to time.

9/11/2011 5:07 PM EDT

Embrace destruction? Easy to say if you are not running for re-election in a year's time :-) Anyway, I do not think Electronics is not unique in destroying the jobs of the incumbents. That said, if it results in high overall efficiencies, then it's worth it even if the same number of jobs lost is not created. People have to retrain and re-adjust to new needs. That's why we subsidise (or should subsidise) the education and reskilling sector.

9/12/2011 8:55 AM EDT

Focus on technology is useless if the CEOs and MBAs are openly stating that they will only hire in China and India and other "best-cost" locations. I know engineers who are unemployed and underemployed; heck, I was too for a few years after a multinational bought the company I worked for and laid off half. Within months after production was moved offshore, knockoffs appeared under four different labels, hurting sales; but in the meantime the executives got their bonuses for "saving costs".

So, basically, this article's application to the real world is tenuous at best.

9/12/2011 9:52 AM EDT

You can detect republicans when they take jobs creation by US companies (as if no outsourcing considered) for granted.

The jobs eliminated by technology in the field (such as meter reading) hopefully become technology-monitoring jobs at the desk for the same people.

9/12/2011 4:08 PM EDT

The market driven solution to the societal disruption being caused by "electronics" would be for disgruntled EE professinals in US etc. to leave the field altogether and let the low - paid EEs in China and India pick up the ball. If the people over there are as bad as they are portrayed to be, the rate of innovation / disruption will plunge - even Apple won't be able to bring out new iwhatevers every year and eventually stability will be restored in the US economy.

Any takers ?

9/12/2011 8:47 PM EDT

Great debate, folks! Look, to Simon, James and others: I'm no right winger. Libertarian? In many ways.

But at the end of the day, my future is in my hands. I need to do something about it; I don't look to the government to do something for me.

Today, I sat in a meeting with representatives from a U.S. congressman and a small contract electronics manufacturer. I'll write about it later at greater length, but they might as well have been speaking to completely different languages.

I know we all have to get along. We need government (really!); what level and type is now a four-century-old debate here in the U.S. And this forum suggests it continues to be a lively debate!

9/13/2011 7:20 AM EDT

It is not just government. America is it's own worst enemy. Here is a country that spent $trillions it did not have on a war it did not need in Iraq. Then wall street and bank regulations were removed, the whole stock market is now simply one big slot machine, betting on risk and speculation not growth. Investors money is simply tossed into the slot never to reappear again.
The whole system needs a top to bottom changes and the biggest issue right now is where America fits in to the world. The so called "Third world countries" have really thrown a curve ball where in a globalized environment, they have literally fielded a well educated labor force 3 times larger than America's. Now it is moving high tech and these countries are investing like crazy on technology. America has never been in this position before, but it has to rise to the challenge. There is no options but for the government to invest in education and technology in a public-private partnership like China. If we don't, China will and then worse times will be had. Whatever needs to be done, has to be done. There is no going back to the good old days, they are gone forever!

9/13/2011 7:42 AM EDT

So what the hell are you doing about it? just complainuing about politicians? In the 1980 things were very bleak (I personally was unemployed for 2 years)and then came along 2 engineers 1 software and 1 hardware that form the computer industry that fueled the boom of the 1990s, along with cell phones and the internet that also helped the 90's growth. The engineers of this country need to forget about goverment, they are not going to help us!, let's put on our thinking caps and create that next industry that will pull us out of this funk!

9/13/2011 2:37 PM EDT

The only way the U.S. will create jobs is by increase tariffs and cancelling all free trade agreements. The tariffs could be refunded at the retailer level so the consumer doesn't see it. Colleges don't create jobs. Free trade only creates jobs in other countries. The so called economic experts keep saying that this is the worst downturn ever and can't figure out that outsourcing of jobs have destroyed our economy. How's it free trade when it almost all from China. If the U.S. isn't making anything then what are we trading? Our future.

9/13/2011 2:50 PM EDT

With highway bridges rusting to pieces, dikes collapsing etc. there is so much work to be done! We need an economic model that lets someone earn a living wage by swinging a paint brush.

From my air conditioned office I look out at the next building and see guys tarring roof in the hot sun. Why do I earn so much more than them? They can't do my job. But I am not willing to do theirs. Even if our pay levels were reversed, I would rather sit here for minimum wage than kill myself out there for $80k more.

9/13/2011 4:30 PM EDT

I have a few issues with Brian's article:
1. Government stimulus wasn't about "government creating jobs", it was about government increasing funding of road-building, etc. But it's not Government that builds the roads: it's the companies that are funded that hire to build the roads. So the stimulus was a way to get [some] companies to hire.
2. Companies aren't really in the business of creating jobs. They're in the business of creating value for their shareholders by selling goods/services.
3. Eventually companies will hire again when they can't supply enough goods/services to their customers. But when an economy (like the USA) is consumer driven, then companies will only hire when consumers spend. But consumers won't spend when they're unemployed.
4. [as many commenters have mentioned] Displaced blue-collar workers won't go back to school to learn programming, nanotech, etc. And that's especially true for the over-40 crowd. So we'll either have to find jobs they can do or take care of them via wellfare/ unemployment.

9/13/2011 6:10 PM EDT

Well stated.

9/14/2011 3:51 PM EDT

"Those people left jobless by technology disintermediation don't shrivel up and die. They do what they have to do: go back to school for more education, re-market themselves, or learn software programming, etc."
- Yet Another anecotal "fact" quoted as justification for an opinion. Hey, whether I agree with you or not, DON'T SPOUT UNATTRIBUTED TRUISMS!

9/17/2011 4:12 PM EDT

Yes, I agree "people with ambition, ideas and the innovator's optimism are the answer."

9/17/2011 7:37 PM EDT

I would be curious how many people with ten or more years of industry experience go back to school. In fact that might make an interesting EETimes survey--determining how often engineers have gone back to school and the types of education they have then received.

9/20/2011 12:06 PM EDT

I am amazed this thread is still going! Perhaps too many of us have too much time on our hands (I know I do!). But along with many other good points made, one that has barely been touched on is the difficulty of doing business planning in a highly uncertain environment. The capriciousness of Congress and the President, the extreme factionalism directed toward getting one's favored candidates elected at all costs, are in some ways analogous to the quarter-results-driven policies of publicly-held corporations --- just on a different characteristic time scale. Long-term planning is essential, and if it is thwarted the fallback position is usually to do as little as possible.

9/29/2011 12:17 PM EDT

Someone is kidding themselves, those poor meter readers are probably not capable of becoming engineers, at least not engineers that can really design things. It's the long line of people that lost low skill jobs and can't find any more that are going to suffer. At the same time skill shortages will ensue in the areas where jobs are created