To have or not to have a fab in India

2/16/2012 10:06 PM EST

Here's an idea: Since he's not doing much good to the USA other than endorsing the diversion of technology cash overseas, how about canceling his green card (I seriously doubt he's a citizen with the kind of attitude he displays) and deporting Renu Raman to go play in India for a while?

It's obvious he must have left India for a reason, but he apparently has no conscience, no gratitude towards his hosts or to those AMERICAN fund sources that stuffed his wallet over the years. Most immigrants, myself included, are eternally grateful to the country that let them in, that helped them prosper.

Actually, Raman should just leave on his own accord if he's so miserable with the USA, and save us the money that'd be spent to send an ingrate home.

2/17/2012 7:32 AM EST

@bpd..."Heck even President Obama did not talk about moving jobs back to the US until his re-election bid kick started."

I'm glad that someone else also made that connection. Seems a bit disingenuous for him to bring that up at this point...

2/17/2012 12:32 PM EST

Bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. may be an election-time campaign rhetoric, as you say. But it is also the idea many in the U.S. high-tech industry denounced awhile ago.

We have been more accustomed to such casual comments as "nobody in the United States wants to do 'low-level assembly jobs' Chinese are doing any more." Or, "We should focus on R&D and innovations in the United States, not manufacturing."

And many of us bought it!

The truth is that those "manufacturing jobs" in China today require an astounding scale of high-tech manufacturing equipment and facilities; and a range of skilled workers to support the entire ecosystem around the manufacturing.

As we shipped manufacturing, it turns out we have also shipped many engineering jobs as well.

So, yes, bringing jobs back to the U.S. may be just a campaign rhetoric, but it is something we should reconsider and re-examine if there is more than rhetoric there.

2/17/2012 1:33 PM EST

@The designers/product developers/manufacturers:
Guys emerging markets (esp. the GIGANTIC yet under-penetrated market in India) are real and an unfolding opportunity I am sure if the electronic eco-system develops in India it would benefit others elsewhere. It is not a zero-sum game.

And yes I am eternally grateful for the opportunities that this country provides to several individuals like me irrespective of the country of origin/religion. I have traveled a fair bit and I can attest that openness at work and in society is remarkable and that is the bed rock of American innovation and consequently the American Dream. I implore you to stop looking at the the rise of other nations as a threat to the American way. Let us continue to innovate but at the same time I agree that all the nations must be fair to each other.

The per-capita income in India is 1/38th that of the US. Millions languish in poverty not for the lack of intelligence or willingness to work but because for years we had followed idealistic socialist policies where economic activity was perceived as a bane. But is it the responsibility of an American corporation or engineer to address that? NO. But your innovation can help millions.

Let me put this in perspective. The wireless chip or the cable-modem board that you design/test has a profound impact on millions world-wide. The telecom/information revolution that is happening in India is a direct result of your efforts. The guy who earns less than 5$ a day can access information and make informed choices about his political representatives/kid's education etc etc.

I think the question that must be pondered over is - How do we accommodate such extreme disparities in global economic structure and yet be fair to every one without slipping into Socialism?

Sorry about the belabor. I have been a silent observer at EE-times for more than 2 years now and felt I should table my views.

2/17/2012 1:38 PM EST

There are no environmental protection rules on the moon. Plus, employee loyalty should be really good there.

2/17/2012 1:45 PM EST

More electonics manufacturng in India would serve the purpose of denying excess profit to China which they have been known to use to drive up the price of raw materials & indulge in activities that are against US interests ( will incrase our Defense budget ).

But India is not developed enough or even committed to excel in Fabs. Just look at how long it has been taking to formulate even an intelligent policy and traget an appropriate segment. There are probably a lot of digital designers there these days who only know that segment of semiconductors and are therefore having a lopsided effect on policies.

Rather than keep hankering after the latest node ( might cost $ 10 billion to start a eco-system and then $ 3 billion per year for 10 years before showing any effect ) they need to start at the low end where there is both growing domestic & international demand.

To absorb processes from others ( IMEC in Belgium, even Tower ) and run them at high yield takes at least 150 PhDs in solid state and materials sciences. They need to first develop that manpower at small R&D Fabs.

Till then just like Taiwan & So. Korea 35 years ago they should focus on assembly & test of consumer electronics like displays & smartphones using imported components.

2/17/2012 5:27 PM EST

Call me a cynic... I don't believe a fab will ever come up. What will happen is somebody at consortium will get paid off, Indian politicians will have a new revenue scheme, a few poor souls would have a cushy job for sometime and that will go away.. and in the end there will be a new empty fab city, with whole lot of folks owning useless land around it (these will be the suckers who bought the land).

2/18/2012 3:25 AM EST

@Prabhakar, that well said, India has huge potential in terms of its own demand.
Having a fab helps in India complete the other side of the coin (one side is design & other is mfg)

2/18/2012 11:28 AM EST

"Planning to set up a fab in India is like wanting to set up a five-star hotel in the middle of a desert"? Sounds like Las Vegas. None of the desert jackrabbits can get any sleep there anymore.

2/19/2012 10:24 PM EST

Why would India even want a Fab? It is a huge capital investment and if you manage to get enough volume of customers to justify the investment, it is time to re-invest in the next technology node. It is also getting harder and harder at lower geometries to scale in volume - take a look at the 32nm problems at GlobalFoundries.

The Indians have perfected the S/W outsourcing model and are making money hand over fist. It is a low investment, quick ROI business, why mess with success?

2/19/2012 11:24 PM EST

India also has special need to have fab for its defence and space program. This may be prime reason for government involvement. Apart from this, it may be very difficult for fab to be successful in India.

2/20/2012 5:32 PM EST

When is the earliest a fab could be built in India? 2015? It could wait out for the NGL winner, then jump in at an earlier node like 90 nm.

2/20/2012 7:22 PM EST

Doesn't India already have a fab?

http://www.cdil.com/

2/20/2012 8:38 PM EST

Regardless of facts, my dream is to see India as a manufacturing country. And, I see nobody controls the financial as well as technology market, in practical. It happens just like how USA got into recession, how Japan moved almost all of manufacturing to China, Thai, Philippines, and how India become giant in "software services". If US companies do not sell technology to India or China, they cannot see the profit. If India is like US, then it cannot provide services at cheaper rates. Its a big equation of human minds. So, I hope that also will happen soon.

2/21/2012 2:46 AM EST

Building and operating a fab requires a certain ecosystem: reliable power, clean water, a trained and educated workforce, ease of material movement in/out of the country. India is sorely lacking all of these. Even a relatively low tech industry like Solar cell manufacturing is unable to take root. As "chipmonk" said, the country should start lower in the value chain and slowly build up the infrastructure and capability needed to move up. Otherwise this will end up just like previous manufacturing initiatives: started on the whim of a half-educated politician and leading nowhere.

2/21/2012 9:16 AM EST

I agree with @escher, you have to start small and build up manufacturing skills...just dropping Billion $ silicon fab in the middle of Indian sub-continent is not going to work...Kris

2/21/2012 3:00 PM EST

Although India may have many technologists and engineers with advanced degrees, their lack of experience will eventually make US-based industry realize that although India may have a lower cost (Salary)the US company would save money by returning manufacture to the USA.

2/22/2012 5:20 AM EST

If this takes off anytime soon it could be a disaster in the making. The world over companies are shedding fabs like britney takes off clothes and here we see some beaurarcats totally ignorant of market realities pushing some grand idea.
This country has been experiencing continuous power shortage for decades, I wonder how they would feed the Fab and when would it break even? I bet this thought didn't even cross their mind.

2/22/2012 5:22 AM EST

If I were an Indian decision maker, I would turn to China for this. Geopolitically, India and China have not seen eye to eye for decades, but that's a relic of the cold war. The Indians should do everything possible to have a friendly and privileged relationship with China, and integrate with other Asian economies.

2/22/2012 6:57 AM EST

If India can build Nuclear power plants, develop long range missiles and satellite launch vehicles ( and that also by the 100% govt owned and controlled R & D organizations )then off course it can build its own Fab with an able technical partner and political will ( which has already been expressed)

2/22/2012 4:48 PM EST

India should build a fab because it makes business sense. Growth of design houses has been stymied by lack of access to a fab. It is also very unlikely for a IDM to step-in a build a fab. In this scenario, the most suitable vehicle is a foundry. There is sufficient domestic market to support such a fab; it could also be a source of IC's for sub-assemblies that might be exported. I might pick 90nm/65nm as the technology since the sweet-spot for Indian market is most likely to be automotive and embededd devices.
People promising the end of the world for this fab seem to be misinformed; there already exist numerous industries that require a constant 7x24 power-supply.

2/22/2012 6:55 PM EST

The Nuclear power plants, the long range missiles etc are technologies that don't change as rapidly as the Semiconductor manufacturing. Besides they have been in India for more than 10 years... Getting into a fab business is a whole new scenario. The record is every time they have announced something, only politicians have made a killing profiting off the land (Fabcity in Hyderabad). They have a fab at BHEL (I think it 3micron 5" wafers) in Bangalore.. They have water, power and 150 acres of eucalyptus trees... They don't have a vision. Naturally they won't set it up there. They will select another spot.. Politicians will buy the land around it and corruption will make sure no fab comes up...We will wait for the next announcement in another 6 mos.....