Engineering Job Market
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Bert22306
You're absolutely right, Sylvie. Retirement plans have become a thing of the ...
Code Monkey
Tribal knowledge is underrated. Companies wizz it away like it's water when they ...
Engineering in crisis? The reasons why
Sylvie Barak
10/25/2012 12:41 PM EDT
Title-1
Yesterday, I wrote about a seeming glut of tech jobs that apparently can't be filled and the subsequent need for more investment in science, technology, math and engineering (STEM) in schools to reverse the trend and fill the deficit.
The post garnered an inbox full of responses; some angry, many frustrated, others in agreement. Some readers felt the argument was a political one, blaming one party’s policies or another.
Others felt the issue was situational, with too many tech jobs located in areas where fewer engineers could take advantage of them.
[Get a 10% discount on ARM TechCon 2012 conference passes by using promo code EDIT. Click here to learn about the show and register.]
“I wish I was 25 instead of 52 so I could just pick up my 5 lbs. of stuff instead of 50,000 and jump right over there,” wrote one unemployed software engineer from New Jersey.
Lack of work experience was blamed for many “average” engineering grads unable to get starter jobs right out of college, while other readers complained that the curse of unemployment made it even more difficult to get back on the job ladder.
“The engineer shortage is a fantasy of the high tech companies,” wrote reader Steve Sodos, holder of a BSEE from Stanford who lives in Silicon Valley. “I cannot get a job because I am unemployed. The high-tech companies are only interested in people who have a specific job skill set so they will ‘hit the ground running.” Sodos said the solution to the engineer "shortage" is simple: "Don't reject all of the applicants!”
Steve Anderson, self-proclaimed “lab guy” at Sonoma State University, said President Obama was the only candidate who gave "lip service" to STEM. "He is the one who said those words, and has committed to a program to support it," Anderson said.
On the other hand, Anderson argues candidate Romney just believes in supporting charter schools, which do not comply with No Child Left Behind testing. “The Republican main science plan is to bust public employee unions and demonize teachers,” he said.
Anderson believes one reason for the dropping rates of STEM students is because NCLB testing does not require physics, as it’s “too hard to put true-false science questions onto a bubble test.”
“Physics is science and science creates engineers,” Anderson added.
Yesterday, I wrote about a seeming glut of tech jobs that apparently can't be filled and the subsequent need for more investment in science, technology, math and engineering (STEM) in schools to reverse the trend and fill the deficit.
The post garnered an inbox full of responses; some angry, many frustrated, others in agreement. Some readers felt the argument was a political one, blaming one party’s policies or another.
Others felt the issue was situational, with too many tech jobs located in areas where fewer engineers could take advantage of them.
[Get a 10% discount on ARM TechCon 2012 conference passes by using promo code EDIT. Click here to learn about the show and register.]
“I wish I was 25 instead of 52 so I could just pick up my 5 lbs. of stuff instead of 50,000 and jump right over there,” wrote one unemployed software engineer from New Jersey.
Lack of work experience was blamed for many “average” engineering grads unable to get starter jobs right out of college, while other readers complained that the curse of unemployment made it even more difficult to get back on the job ladder.
“The engineer shortage is a fantasy of the high tech companies,” wrote reader Steve Sodos, holder of a BSEE from Stanford who lives in Silicon Valley. “I cannot get a job because I am unemployed. The high-tech companies are only interested in people who have a specific job skill set so they will ‘hit the ground running.” Sodos said the solution to the engineer "shortage" is simple: "Don't reject all of the applicants!”
Steve Anderson, self-proclaimed “lab guy” at Sonoma State University, said President Obama was the only candidate who gave "lip service" to STEM. "He is the one who said those words, and has committed to a program to support it," Anderson said.
On the other hand, Anderson argues candidate Romney just believes in supporting charter schools, which do not comply with No Child Left Behind testing. “The Republican main science plan is to bust public employee unions and demonize teachers,” he said.
Anderson believes one reason for the dropping rates of STEM students is because NCLB testing does not require physics, as it’s “too hard to put true-false science questions onto a bubble test.”
“Physics is science and science creates engineers,” Anderson added.
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SylvieBarak
10/25/2012 1:28 PM EDT
I wrote this blog in response to this article: http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/other/4399247/Engineering-talent-deficit--Are-you-the-problem-or-solution--
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sealaser
10/25/2012 1:53 PM EDT
Thanks for the great article Sylvie.
I was remiss at crediting, in my indignation, and need to add that, 8 Mil$ at SSU was a public-private collaboration.
We have many generous industry donors that supported engineering at a small liberal arts campus; Agilent, JDSU, Keck Foundation, Cerent, Calix, AFC, with focus on telecomm, EE, fiber optics, and scientific instrumentation.
thanks again for illuminating this issue. I see from some responses "what shortage is that? I am unemployed"
Steve Anderson
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Bert22306
10/25/2012 4:00 PM EDT
Nice recap of what was said in the many posts.
Just one point, though. I'm not so sure that the majority non-technically-inclined teachers is such a big obstacle. I, for one, never expected my teachers, certainly not through grade school, to be interested in what I enthused over. But kids who care about anything have a way of pursuing these things on their own. No matter what subject matter.
It does matter more in high school, because you need the basics down cold to make it to college STEM majors.
As to what other kids think is cool? Egad. Anyone who gets dissuaded by that wouldn't have the stamina to stick it out anyway.
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BobsUrUncle
10/26/2012 9:17 AM EDT
This same debate happens every few years when there are big layoffs in the industry. This time is different. The jobs are not coming back...
What's the point of a STEM education if there are no jobs or stable career prospects. Better to go to a trade school and learn to be an electrician or a plumber. At least you can support a family.
This is the sad state of affairs due to free market nuts who dismissed engineers being required to have licenses years ago when we had a chance to prevent this disaster. Now, companies are free to layoff good local engineers and hire cheaper offshore ones. They can do this as long as technology remains stagnant -- which is guaranteed with less funding for basic research under Republican administrations. Technology stagnation gives offshore engineers time to come up to speed on current practices.
This should be seen as a national security issue. Fewer trained engineers means we will loose our technology edge in defense and open ourselves up to cyber attacks by allowing foreign equipment to be installed in our telecom networks.
I urge anyone who is out of work and and looking for a job to start a company in your garage/basement. Don't just sit there waiting for some politician to solve your problems. Things will get a lot worse before they get better.
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wwoooooo
10/28/2012 8:11 AM EDT
There. See ? Confirms that H1B(*) has rocked AND toppled the standard of living of American EE's, driving their standup personalities and high salaries out into the lower class.
Replaced by obedient-less qualified(resumes inflated by greedy US colleges+greedy UNpatriotic US corporations+greedy US lawmakers+'tiger' pack study groups sharing howework loads, or faked back in India or China). Do NOT let yur children be duped US colleges promising great EE careers to your kieds. US colleges are part of the H1B scam-going on 30 years. I recall in my 1st job, a grey haired Phd H1B, trying to take over my small project, claiming he was 27yrs old-my American manager loved these H1B's, though. just loved them back n 1987 !! No wonder ...
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wwoooooo
10/28/2012 8:14 AM EDT
UNpatriotic US lawmakers claim H1B's are needed to come in, create companies and hire US engineers--please---H1B's have been eating US jobs--eating US EE's since the 80's, the soylent green machin they are, made in China and India to eat highly paid US EE's alive..
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wwoooooo
10/28/2012 8:23 AM EDT
UNpatriotic US corporations won't hire US EE's out of school, BUT, they will hire and Indian or Chinese H1B right out of school. The H1B's sense this higher caste privilege and eke out bad behavior in the US workplace, literally reach ove rthe hand of a igher qualified, standup US EE's hand topus buttons on a test equipment panel, cause mistakes--distractthe good work and intentions of a US EE AND, NOT bat a eyelash or flinch, knowing that their low H1B salaries and obediency-willing to cheat(*) US regulations in safety critical environments are GOLD to the US corporation. (*) H1B's have a higher caste--they get to do the design work and US EE's are pressured to do the verification/regulatory approval SIGNATURES, allowing the H1B's to hide their lower quality-obedient level work from US regulatory standards. i.e. to US EE' the company's pressure is: approve their work or leave
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wwoooooo
10/28/2012 8:29 AM EDT
Identified soe typos from typing too fast--lets correct them ....
UNpatriotic US corporations won't hire US EE's out of school, BUT, they will hire and Indian or Chinese H1B right out of school. The H1B's sense this higher caste privilege and eke out bad behavior in the US workplace, literally reaching over the hand of a higher qualified, standup US EE's hand to ignorantly push buttons on a test equipment panel IN A SAFTEY CRITICAL PRODUCT supplier, cause mistakes on the test screen capture--thus distracting the good work and intentions of a US EE AND, NOT bat a eyelash or flinch, knowing that their low H1B salaries and obediency-willing to cheat(*) US regulations in safety critical environments, are GOLD to the US corporation. (*) H1B's have a higher caste--they get to do the design work and US EE's are low end pressured to do the verification/regulatory approval SIGNATURES work, allowing the H1B's to hide their lower quality-obedient level work from US regulatory standards. i.e. to US EE' the company's pressure is: take the legal risk approve their work or leave
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BobsView
10/26/2012 9:41 AM EDT
Starting a company is no longer an option. I know many people that have tried that strategy, and the minute your product hits the marketplace, unless it is patented, cheap clones will put you out of business. And even patent protection is not foolproof. It's easy for big corporations to do a workaround.
The solution is an import duty on products from foreign companies that do not play by the rules. How can you compete with foreign companies that have masses of workers in dormitories ready to work 14-16 hour days at a moments notice?
If the playing field is level, we can compete. But it's not.
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rob18767
10/26/2012 1:45 PM EDT
Replace the finance industry wih unemployed engineers and we will never see the debacle of the 2008 crisis occur again.
Experience engineers understand Murhpy's law.
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BobsUrUncle
10/26/2012 8:20 PM EDT
Sorry. Wishful thinking. Lot of Wall Street firms are run by ex-engineers, physicists and mathematicians. Vikram Pandit was an EE.
Being an engineer isn't a panacea against selfishness and greed.
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danny1024
10/26/2012 2:15 PM EDT
There is much truth to the HR "cookie cutter" filter folks; applicant "A" doesn't fully meet the stated qualifications for the req so reject him.
But Let applicant "A" actually talk with the engineers and technical management who opened the req in the first place and you'll experience totally different hiring outcomes.
Companies don't want to spend the money to do on the job training despite the fact that nearly every employee needs some time/training to become proficient in a particular company's processes and procedures;
proficiency in the latest EDA design flows is necessary but not sufficient to ensure the recent hire will be productive.
After all, bright, talented people can master any tool but mastery of a tool doesn't imply brightness, talent or ability to make a contribution.
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Clyde
10/26/2012 2:56 PM EDT
If anyone is interested, Ball Aerospace has numerous openings (~200 in Colorado) and Schweitzer Engineering in Pullman, WA has a lot of openings also. (according to my Godson, who works there)
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SEL Employee 1
10/30/2012 11:57 AM EDT
I work there, too, and we have more than 200 open positions: all kinds of engineers, assemblers, business functions, interns...
You can see all of our open positions around the world here: https://www.selinc.com/careers/
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volee68
10/26/2012 5:47 PM EDT
I recently retired from a large aerospace company, and have a couple of comments regarding the "engineer shortage". First, over the last few years of my career, my employer outsourced the recruiting function. The company chosen was not technically savvy (related to me by friends who I suggested apply for open engineering positions). As has been related in other responses, such recruiters (maybe company HR personnel as well) abdicate the filtering task to a software "key word matching" program. Thus, only applicants who have mastered the art of buzz word resume construction make it through the filter.
Secondly, over the last few years, my employer off-shored as many engineering design jobs as possible, and did as much as possible to force the remaining engineers (especially senior staff) to leave. Any high school student bright enough to survive an engineering curriculum is also bright enough to see the limited employment future with large US companies. My employer is not unique in this regard, many of the largest employers of engineers are following the same practice.
I'm glad I've retired, and my career was good to me; financially in that I could retire, intellectually because keeping up with the ever changing technology provided mental challenges and growth, and I got to create some really cool products and work with some really neat technologies. Not sure similar opportunities exist today.
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Misslengr
10/26/2012 6:57 PM EDT
The hiring process is broken. The old saying goes "Once you have a job everyone is willing to offer you a job." The hard part is getting past HR and meeting with the people behind the doors who need help. If you don't have a job don't apply here. Great. My youngest has a B.S. in Chemistry ... no jobs for anyone 'right out of college'. Sound familiar? Entry level jobs specify 3-5 years experience. Great. If there is a shortage it is because of 'diversity'. I've witnessed over the decades that if you don't have the right 'plumbing' or 'paint job' you are not considered in the (rare) new hires process.
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RDJ
10/28/2012 1:59 PM EDT
The +100K pensioned jobs in the Fortune 500 are going away. The last bastion of those secure-retirement jobs are in the civil service sector, and those folks are going to have a rude awakening in a few years. The world is changing rapidly--the future for American engineers now is in the smaller and mid-sized firms. The paychecks are smaller, and you'll have to learn to manage a 401(k), but the HR department is easier to punch through and the opportunities are usually better in the long run.
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SylvieBarak
10/30/2012 2:45 PM EDT
Not just for engineers...
it's a sad reality for most people under 30 that we no longer have what our parents had in terms of retirement prospects
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Bert22306
10/31/2012 4:59 PM EDT
You're absolutely right, Sylvie. Retirement plans have become a thing of the past. Companies seem to offer savings plans to which they contribute, but not the old style retirement plan anymore.
I'm not sure how this would have been unpredictable, though, in the new global era. When workers compete globally, and corporations become multinational, how could it be otherwise? I mean, what mechanisms could be put in place to make it otherwise, I guess is what I'm really asking.
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BobsView
10/29/2012 11:27 AM EDT
I think we are well on track for companies in the $1 to $100 Billion range to have maybe 10 employees maximum. Everything else will be outsourced.
But the outsourced jobs won't be well paying jobs, they will gravitate to minimum wage jobs. It's going to be a "Brave New World" for our kids.
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resistion
10/29/2012 11:47 AM EDT
There is insufficient capping on debt and litigation, hence bankers and lawyers always in demand.
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Code Monkey
10/30/2012 4:31 PM EDT
Tribal knowledge is underrated. Companies wizz it away like it's water when they downsize, then expect it to magically appear when they re-hire. This mentality has huge social costs, which companies should bear part of. Unfortunately, the government has no leverage because laws that would discourage off-shoring have been gutted. Mongo is only pawn in game of life.
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