NYC to London on a 4,000 mph vacuum train

7/16/2012 8:51 PM EDT

Sounds really cool. I had read about this sort of concept. And a less credible idea, but intriguing anyway, drilling straight down through the earth to the other side, and using only gravity to provide the needed acceleration and deceleration.

Comment: 1g refers to acceleration rather than force. It's 9.8 meters/sec/sec, or 32 ft/sec/sec. It should take just over 3 minutes of constant 1g acceleration to reach 4000 mph (=5867 ft/sec), from a standing start.

The force required to achieve that depends on the mass of these capsules.

I would think that any small shift in the soil surrounding these tunnels would, uuh, really spoil your day, if you're a passenger.

7/16/2012 9:45 PM EDT

i would like to ask:-
"what is the problem in present design so that we can have a capsule that can accomodate just people"
there is vaccum in tunnel we can have even a bigger capsule
plz answer in basic terms as i am just a graduate student

7/16/2012 9:48 PM EDT

i think with a big capsule problem will arise in magnetic levitation
am i right and please elaborate
i am not getting it clearly

7/17/2012 7:16 AM EDT

This is obviously completely implausible. London's current Crossrail project is costing £1.5bn for 21km of tunnels. For a 4000 mile trans-Atlantic tunnel, that scales to £460bn ($720bn), and that doesn't even include making the tunnel vacuum sealed and the additional cost of building several kilometres under the sea. Adding the fact that maglev track is $40m/km gives an additional $260bn. This gives a $1tn total budget, which is significantly larger than the entire global air travel industry that it seeks to displace. I call snake oil on this. Also, the ET3 has been around since 2007; why is EETimes only reporting on it now?

7/17/2012 7:27 AM EDT

Not going to happen across the atlantic (the cost is astronomical). Perhaps within continents...

7/17/2012 8:34 AM EDT

I'd be happy with a waterslide commute to work this morning ;-)

7/17/2012 10:36 AM EDT

Why not use this within cities for high-speed package delivery...like they used to have in Paris 100 years ago? They used pneumatic pressure to zip letters along. This could be used to replace couriers, and it would be a lot safer delivering packages than trying it out on humans. It might even enable a proper e-commerce system...Imagine getting deliveries from amazon in an instant...actually wait--4000 mph is still too slow to cross the continent in less than one hour...

For people, a tube built through the oceans would be the safest solution...earthquake proof and relatively safe from human interference. It could float a few dozen metres below the surface.

7/17/2012 12:02 PM EDT

OOPS, what if the is a small problem problem while YOU are mid-way under the Atlantic...
perhaps a minor vacume leak, or a power outage at the vaccum source... or an electrial outage on the levatation system...

hum, maybe you also consider the use of a straight shot frictionless "tube flight" system that claims to get you anywhere in the world in 44 minutes ??


from 2-A PRESS, Binghamton, N. Y. Thurs., March 24,1966
'Tube' Research
Rensselaer —UP)— Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute plans a
$70,000 research facility, Project
Tube Flight, to study the feasibility
of high speed, aboveground
tubes for mass transportation.
The U. S. Commerce Department
granted the contract
for the work.

7/17/2012 2:02 PM EDT

A full working system up and running within a decade? Right, because the planet has infinite financial resources to fund such an adventure.

"space travel on earth" seems like an appropriate description. All the costs (and more) and all the safety risks of space travel -- just to save a few hours relative to an old-fashioned jet aircraft.

7/17/2012 2:53 PM EDT

"OOPS, what if the is a small problem problem while YOU are mid-way under the Atlantic..."

That was my thought. Every idea looks good as long as you don't consider what can go wrong.

It is hard to imagine anything worse than to be stuck thousands of miles away from land, under the ocean, in a vacuum tube.

7/17/2012 3:14 PM EDT

Or put a filament and a plate at one end . . .

7/17/2012 5:35 PM EDT

How is this not prior art? I guess you can get a patent on anything these days.

7/18/2012 11:49 AM EDT

"OOPS, what if there is a small problem problem while YOU are mid-way under the Atlantic..."

By that reasoning, commercial flight across the ocean would not be feasible. What if the engine failed, etc, etc.

The problem I have with this whole concept is flying along at 2500 MPH and smashing into a stalled vehicle ahead. I hope the patents have a super reliable way to detect obstacles in the path. Even a pebble in the path could be disasterous.

7/18/2012 11:49 AM EDT

I'd say that this is a person/group that doesn't understand the issues involved in scaling. Just because something works for shooting mail around in a building, or could be viable as a few mile demonstrator, doesn't mean that it is feasible on a large scale.

And, really? who is going cram themselves into a 24" capsule (coffin?) and lay in one spot for an hour or two.

7/18/2012 2:06 PM EDT

I can understand why the Chinese government would be interested in this. Right before the Chinese New Year, millions of migrant workers are stranded for days in train stations with no food or sanitation.

For a very revealing and entertaining documentary about this, check out the movie, "Last Train Home" available on Netflix and Amazon (and other places).

7/18/2012 3:37 PM EDT

"It is hard to imagine anything worse than to be stuck thousands of miles away from land, under the ocean, in a vacuum tube."

"Maybe falling from the sky packed in a tube with other passengers and jet fuel might be worse but we risk that too"

Yes, but we understand the risks of flying (they are pretty low). And we have methods of rescue if things go wrong. What are the risks of this high speed tube? Is there any way of rescuing if the device gets stuck somehow? Or does everyone die? Lots of people died in the first attempts at flight. This is highly experimental. In fact, has anything of the sort (even a few miles long) been built? Build a working test unit and maybe people might be more likely to put some money behind the idea.

7/18/2012 6:47 PM EDT

Interestingly enough Elon Musk gave a Fireside chat a few nights ago in which he mentions that he is about to reveal a fifth mode of transportation which he calls the hyperloop. See here, http://new.livestream.com/pandodaily/elonmusk/videos/1908918

It's suppose to be crash proof, immune to weather and solar powered. He envisions travel at twice the speed of an airliner with travel times of under 30 minutes between LA and San Francisco. He agreed when asked that it's like a Jetson's tunnel. However his tweet of July 15th says he will publish something in four weeks and that it is “not a vac tunnel”.

7/19/2012 3:10 AM EDT

For sure there're challenges with vacuum maglev -- especially the current unavailability of room temperature superconductors AFAIK..

but the prospect of using very little energy per trip is appealing :)

7/19/2012 5:00 AM EDT

If you get squirmy for few-minute CT or MRI scans, I think this is far worse.

7/19/2012 5:41 AM EDT

I entered a Blue Peter (UK TV) competition years ago with a similar idea. Didn't even get a badge!

7/19/2012 7:16 AM EDT

How about trying this idea out in a tunnel under theland firs? Like from New York to Chicago to Los Angeles, etc.It may be easier to achieve this than under the water. Going under the ocean may be tried out later.

7/19/2012 10:32 AM EDT

A trillion dollars is what this thing would ACTUALLY cost. For that price, let's just build exact replicas of London AND New York and place them next to each other. Problem solved.

7/20/2012 2:00 PM EDT

This is the stuff of urban legend. Unlike a drive-up tellers vacuum propelled cash can, this train is not propelled by any air pressure differential. It simply coasts in a drag-free airless tube after an initial acceleration. For bearings, think mag lev without propulsion.

First, got to build the tube to withstand 4kg/cm2 pressure (at about 100 feet deep) and be rigid enough to withstand wave action flexing so as to maintain tight mag-lev tolerances. Got to keep the tube in place - either with multi propellors with gps feedback or bouys in opposition with deep sea anchors.

Next, got to evacuate some 7.7 million cu meters of air. Next, capsule has to provide fresh air at atmosphere pressure for passenger comfort. Got a problem? Need escape hatches periodically which must have vacuum locks to admit you to 100 ft sea depth for prompt medical attention.

And last, this thing has to have automatic terrorist detection and annihilation. And better add an iceberg detector - one Titanic is enough.

I'm recommending everyone purchase a share in this, just to get the bridge that surely must come with it.

7/20/2012 6:59 PM EDT

Drill the tunnel with a "subterrene". Tungsten thing that melts its way through the ground.

7/21/2012 1:01 PM EDT

Some very serious problems appear to me. Assuming the problems of residual atmospheric friction 'could' be overcome (i.e.-there is no perfect vacuum) and all the rest of the 'construction' mechanics could be accomplished (not such a simple assumption):
1. The lateral forces due to any very small misalignment would render the ride highly uncomfortable (airsickness bags?).
2. Maintaining alignment in the face of geological motions over that path length render a "bored" tunnel approach highly impractical and any other 'tube' maintenance very expensive even if achievable.
3. Where is the rest room for those riding in such a small and claustrophobic vehicle? (Duh!)
- Science fiction? Yes!
- Realizable? No.

7/22/2012 2:00 AM EDT

Sylvie Barak did not contact ET3 (tm) for this article. This article repeats many gross errors from other articles about by "journalists" that also failed to contact us. Some key points of error are:
* ET3 is NOT a train (and hence not a "vactrain").
* We do NOT advocate ET3 crossing the Atlantic. NOTE: the Bering Strait is less than 90 miles of ocean to cross, and is less than 200' deep, tunneling underground under water (like the "Chunnel").
* We are NOT focused on "getting more capacity in the capsules". Cars have won the global transportation market, the capsules are sized to carry 4 to 6 passengers (or one to three euro-pallets of cargo) like a typical car. The capacity of ET3 at 350mph is over 10 capsules per second (able to move more passengers per hour than a 40 lane freeway).
* Over 95% of the ET3 network will be at speeds of 200 to 600 mph, and above ground.
* We were not asked for permission to use our copyrighted artwork in this poorly researched article.
* The ET3 consortium is comprised by over 200 experts, companies, and institutions in 16 countries.

7/22/2012 9:26 AM EDT

My biggest concern is that at 4000mph you have to guarantee your environment over an incredible distance (the stopping distance), where as planes have some degree of maneuverability and trains a shorter stopping distance in the event of problems. Also maintaining a vacuum over such a surface area is going to be an interesting challenge.

7/23/2012 1:08 AM EDT

Ooh-oh, and for the London-NY "train" they shouldn't forget to extend the vacuum tube by 3cm every year, due to continental drift! :-)

7/23/2012 6:23 AM EDT

Terraspan - Power to All the Peoples of the Earth
Short Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKXbx9ssONo

Sylvie there is more then one "vacuum" transport system that has been introduced based in part on the 67 year old patent of Robert Goddard (the father of all modern rocketry-included the so-called German Rocket Science).

What is perhaps most interesting about the system called "terraspan" (SEE terraspan.org at www.youtube.com) is that it is privately funded, entirely below ground and principally a POWER DISTRIBUTION AND STORAGE SYSTEM.

Like the initial use of airplanes(for mail) the system will make money for investors by recapturing electrical power lost today and redistributing power across continents and from renewable sources to reduce energy dependency and carbon dioxide.

After providing its power distribution functions terraspan will begin transport of freight and perishables at its max speeds. American chickens will first travel between New York and London the same way that they do today through european tunnels the long way around in minutes. Always underground even in the Bering Straight and the English Channel. Terraspan is underground in buried tubes or machine bored tunnels.

Terraspan ties together the Americas. Then adds Eurasia through the Bering straight and eventually, Africa, Malaysia and Australia.

One rides in comfort in terraspan and passes the long way around to reach London from New York. When fully tested and uber-reliable, terraspan is unlikely to exceed 5000 mph making the New York/London trip via Canada/Alaska/Eurasia 2.5 hours.

7/23/2012 8:31 AM EDT

Larry Niven described this system of transporation in his "Ringworld" series of books in the 70's. Science-fiction often point the way toward the future's "new" ideas.