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johnintheearth
how is FAB68 life? anyone inside know?
TDiCorcia
I had heard from an Intel engineer that there is so little labor in a chip that ...
Intel opens China fab
Mark Lapedus
10/26/2010 12:02 PM EDT
SAN JOSE, Calif. - Intel Corp. has begun operations within its first fab in China, according to Dow Jones.
In 2007, Intel won approval to build a $2.5 billion, 300-mm wafer plant in northern China for chip sets. The plan called for the fab to be in the city of Dalian. The fab will produce 65-nm devices.
Last year, Intel said production will begin in 2010, most likely late in the year.
Intel is also expanding in the U.S. As reported, Intel recently confirmed speculation that it will build a new R&D wafer fab in Hillsboro, Ore., and upgrade other existing U.S. facilities for 22-nm production at a total investment of between $6 billion and $8 billion.
The investment will create 800 to 1,000 permanent high-tech jobs and 6,000 to 8,000 construction jobs, Intel (Santa Clara, Calif.) said. The new development fab in Oregon, to be known as D1X, is slated for R&D startup in 2013.
One analyst thinks the fab will be ''450-mm ready.''
In 2007, Intel won approval to build a $2.5 billion, 300-mm wafer plant in northern China for chip sets. The plan called for the fab to be in the city of Dalian. The fab will produce 65-nm devices.
Last year, Intel said production will begin in 2010, most likely late in the year.
Intel is also expanding in the U.S. As reported, Intel recently confirmed speculation that it will build a new R&D wafer fab in Hillsboro, Ore., and upgrade other existing U.S. facilities for 22-nm production at a total investment of between $6 billion and $8 billion.
The investment will create 800 to 1,000 permanent high-tech jobs and 6,000 to 8,000 construction jobs, Intel (Santa Clara, Calif.) said. The new development fab in Oregon, to be known as D1X, is slated for R&D startup in 2013.
One analyst thinks the fab will be ''450-mm ready.''
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halarpd
10/26/2010 12:16 PM EDT
I can not believe that Intel continues to invest in Fab in China. A day will come that China will close the fab and will not allow shipment of semiconductors out of the country, just look at the recent development. China has monopoly in rare metal and they threatened to stop shipment to Japan recently.
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bmws88
10/26/2010 2:00 PM EDT
Maybe a de facto monopoly? Even though I think it is silly and childish for the Chinese government to tie rare earth to every tiny little dispute with Japan, the fact China has only 1/3 of the world rare earth reserve almost certainly does not make it a monopoly. The US decided it was too expensive and dirty to produce rare early and left the job completely to China. I'd call that stupid.
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paul.delamusica
10/26/2010 2:49 PM EDT
Japan's dream to dominate the electric car business might be finished if nobody sells them the material.
Can US car makers capitalize on this opening?
You can't make people sell things they don't want to sell, unless you send in the Japanese Imperial Army. The Chinese remember that very well.
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paul.delamusica
10/26/2010 3:04 PM EDT
Yeah, last time when FDR refused to sell them the scrap iron, they retaliated by bombing the Pearl Harber.
Wonder what their response would be this time.
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Narutolili
10/26/2010 8:46 PM EDT
I am very frustrated to see that you think it this way.Why will China forbidde the chip shipment?It's a developing country that needs high technology, and we all know that convinent contact between countries is necessary.Do not be hostile to China!
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
10/27/2010 2:50 AM EDT
I, for one, would love to sit down and have a beer with China. After awhile, we'll be tousling each other's hair, slapping each other on the back, and singing old Beatles tunes. It doesn't matter if we sing the songs in Chinese or English, because if we have enough beer, their Chinese will sound like English, and my English will sound like Chinese.
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Rodneyluo8
10/29/2010 10:25 PM EDT
really?you know what?
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Kaiser Silicon
10/26/2010 1:15 PM EDT
Building this fab was a mistake. The chinese will steal the technology, and Intel will lose its competitive advantage. Penny wise. Pound foolish.
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wilber_xbox
10/26/2010 3:50 PM EDT
What a thought? I wonder how you reached this conclusion "Chinese will steal the technology and Intel will loose its competitive advantage" and not that Intel will rob Chinese of their money by selling at a higher price what they produce at first place.
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liujie721
10/26/2010 1:48 PM EDT
The fab in China is not Intel's latest technique. it is 65 nm, which is behind Intel's 45 nm and 32 nm released in market
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EdKorczynski
10/26/2010 2:07 PM EDT
No mistake, Intel wants the P.R.C. to have 65nm SiON CMOS logic manufacturing (of course, it's now leaking like a sieve from TSMC, too). Indeed, some companies will lose competitive advantage, but not Intel with 32nm HKMG CMOS.
Recall that the P.R.C. has invested heavily over many years to develop and own IP-clean MIPS clone designs (Ref: "Godson"/"Loongson" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson) that create 1.2 GHz 64bit multicore DDR3-compatible chips in 65nm ST fabs today.
Think it through...
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Warren
10/26/2010 3:39 PM EDT
Is there a major fabricator of silicon products who does not have a fab in Taiwan or China (or who is not trying to ink such an arrangement)?
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wilber_xbox
10/26/2010 3:54 PM EDT
I do not know why Intel is planning to build new fab now in USA instead of Taiwan or China. Has US become a cheaper destination post recession? Or Intel has pressure from government to keep jobs at home. In either way an investment of 6-8 Billion will not be a single party investment just because its too huge an amount and with limited benefits.
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garydpdx
10/27/2010 9:33 AM EDT
Intel receives large tax abatements from the State of Oregon plus county and suburban local governments.
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TDiCorcia
11/1/2010 5:10 PM EDT
I had heard from an Intel engineer that there is so little labor in a chip that skills, experience and infrastructure are more important than wage rates. I also get the impression that Intel invests in plants with an eye on the long run. Political and social risk is large (over the long term) in any country that is going through rapid socioeconomic changes. It makes sense to gain experience in China, but not to move everything to that jurisdiction.
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mark.lapedus
10/26/2010 8:12 PM EDT
Intel has a huge trade surplus with China. (It's one of the few U.S. that does.) To keep in good graces with the Chinese government, Intel (and other multinationals) must pay a cover charge to do business in China. In Intel's case, it's a 300-mm fab. A good business decision. Or was it? More comments?
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will99878898
10/27/2010 3:15 AM EDT
mark, don't get so self centered/selfish/narrowminded. A company benifits society by taxes/jobs/profits... It earned I guess 30%+ revenue from chinese market.
It 's just common sense to leave some benefit to local people as well.
Japanese is even more civilized than you. look at toyota/nissan's us factories, what kind of global spirit in that.
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
10/27/2010 3:41 AM EDT
Dear will99878898 (not to get personal, but your picture doesn't look like a will99878898--and I should know, because I, too, am at least one-quarter anonymous), poor Mark was merely giving his opinion, and asking for ours in return. Judging by his neat facial hair, I would say he is acceptably civilized. However, I am no judge of that, as nearly everyone is more civilized than I am.
You make a very good point that it is good sense to create some benefit for the local economies in which one does business. I suspect Mark was making the same basic point, but expressed from a slightly different point of view. Not to speak for him, but I believe he was presenting the business and political viewpoints, whereas you were presenting the social goodwill aspect, which are all related.
By way of comparison with Intel and their fab in China, you praised the Japanese for their global spirit in locating factories in the US.
Well done, and, in the spirit of civility, I, for one, would love to sit down and have a beer with Japan. After awhile, we'll be tousling each other's hair, slapping each other on the back, and singing old Beatles tunes. It doesn't matter if we sing the songs in Japanese or English, because if we have enough beer, their Japanese will sound like English, and my English will sound like Japanese.
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will99878898
10/28/2010 12:56 AM EDT
yeah, this suppose to be a global ... community, and it happens to be in English. If it's in Japanese I guess we ll all get a Japanese nickname.
anyway. You guys all get a English name and talking in ENGLISH although not all of you are English. It doesn't matter though, you borrowed it and use it.
The koreans anyway takes the pain to create their own language which is not quite nesssary.
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resistion
10/26/2010 8:17 PM EDT
45 nm HKMG could be banned in China. 65 nm has no high volume product. The fab doesn't make sense to continue unless Intel starts a 45 nm line there with or w/o HKMG.
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greenpattern
10/26/2010 9:39 PM EDT
After his speech about US needing more incentive to build fabs, the inauguration of the Chinese fab angers many. There may be a boycott of Atom chips.
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mark.lapedus
10/27/2010 2:37 AM EDT
Good point. Hey Intel: I thought you wanted to create jobs in the U.S. Sure, you announced new and upgraded fabs in the U.S. Great. Why not do more?
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
10/27/2010 3:44 AM EDT
I, for one, would love to sit down and have a beer with Intel. After awhile, we'll be tousling each other's hair, slapping each other on the back, and singing old Beatles tunes. It doesn't matter if we sing the songs in Intelese or English, because if we have enough beer, their Intelese will sound like English, and my English will sound like Intelese.
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
10/27/2010 2:59 AM EDT
"The new development fab in Oregon, to be known as D1X...."
So, China gets "Fab 68," and Oregon gets D1X.
I wonder, which one will be bigger? At two and half billion versus eight billion dollars, I guess the US D1X will be bigger.
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
10/27/2010 3:12 AM EDT
If I read it correctly, Intel won't be ready to show people their D1X development until 2013. Unfortunately, that's after the end of the world, in 2012, so we may not get to see it.
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iniewski
10/27/2010 10:13 AM EDT
so Intel opens China fab after Andy Groove complains that US companies outsource eng jobs to overseeas conutries, go figure ;-)...Kris
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Silicon_Smith
10/27/2010 11:53 AM EDT
Just want to add that Intel approached India for setting up a fab. From what I heard, Intel was very interested but somehow the red-tapism in the Indian bureaucracy prevented this from happening. I guess, India dint even have a semiconductor policy and the lack of promise for infrastructure can really upset a company looking to set up a fab. Feel sorry, for the $2.5 B in investments and thousands of hi-tech jobs had to travel further east.
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mark.lapedus
10/27/2010 2:19 PM EDT
Some day, Intel will do 45-nm high-k/metal-gate in China fab. Then what? Intel will dismiss it. will99878898 will cheer. Should be happy or mad? And Andy: What do make of Intel's fab in China?
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resistion
10/27/2010 11:49 PM EDT
I'd be curious how Intel would get 45 nm HKMG in China past the Wassenaar Arrangement.
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will99878898
10/28/2010 1:00 AM EDT
mark, some sincere suggestion to you.
talk with your community church's paster.
ask him/her what does it mean when Jesus teach you 'love your neighbor as yourself'
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Kaiser Silicon
10/27/2010 2:48 PM EDT
Folks, it is a HUGE mistake to put a 300 mm fab in China. If it's anything like any other companies that do business in China, the non-Chinese company is required to have a Chinese partner to "help" the outside company. The "help" is that those people are there to steal the technology and transfer the technology to the indigineous Chinese companies. But more importantly, even having sub 70 nm technology has serious implications for military technology. It is foolish in the extreme to setup shop in China. It's more like receiving an opiate from a drug dealer. Once you become addicted, in this case, to Chinese profits, they have you. And they keep uping the ante as to what you have to build in their country in order to continue doing business there.
Make no mistake about it. The Chinese gov't is behaving as a merchantilist. They dictate the value of the yuan, rather than allowing the free market to decide the value of their currency. One can't forget the rather shoddy products that have come out of China, not to mention the tainted food items, which may be a bit off topic.
But still, this is a war. They are out to steal the rest of the world's know how. Building a fab there is extremely perilous, especially given the non-existent protection for intellectual property. But more importantly, but setting up shop there, the Chinese are learning the know how, and that is at the expense of jobs in the West.
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resistion
10/28/2010 4:50 AM EDT
Yes, I think if they learn the 45 nm HKMG, that is the end. That is the point of the Wassenaar Arrangement.
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Kaiser Silicon
10/27/2010 2:48 PM EDT
Make no mistake. China is still smarting from the humiliation it received in the 19th century from the British during the Opium Wars, not to mention the foreign enclaves that were setup on China's coast, stomping on their national sovereignty. They regard the existence of Taiwan is a slap in the face. They aim to settle it one way or another. They may prefer a peaceful resolution, but if that can't be had, they are slowing building their military forces so that they can reclaim Taiwan. China is building weapons that are specifically designed to with 1 punch knock out of an American Super Carrier without using a nuke.
So, which brings me back to electronics, do I think that it is foolish for Intel to be building a fab in China? YES!!!
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
10/28/2010 1:03 AM EDT
Strong words, Kaiser, which I'll not joke about. What should we, as the global electronics engineering community, do, if anything? I've been advised to study Mandarin. Would that be futile?
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mark.lapedus
10/28/2010 1:37 AM EDT
Mandarin is not difficult to learn. That's not the issue. What the U.S. needs is a strong hi-tech, energy and manufacturing policy to compete with the rest of the world. Agree or disagree? (will99878898, not sure what you mean. FYI. I lived in Greater China for 5 years! I respect 5,000 years of history. But now, it's time for the U.S. Sleeping Giant to wake up!)
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will99878898
10/28/2010 6:42 AM EDT
'love your neighbor as yourself' I bet your community church pastor could enlight you.
In your case, you need to love the chinese/indians etc as yourself/or americans.
If chinese get rich, get tech etc. you should feel just like you are getting rich. Your trouble and your confusion comes since you lack such kind of wisdom.
It time for you to grow a little on this, it's called touch of holy spirit.
yeah, you need some holy spirit.
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Neo1
10/28/2010 2:40 AM EDT
You all got wrong, Intel building fabs in china will help bring down cost of intel chips or make intel richer which means putting more spare money in the hands of customers.
But the big Q is who will pay the prospective customers at the end of the month to make them buy chips?
What, china steals IP? really, they still keep doing that, do they?
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mark.lapedus
10/29/2010 12:21 AM EDT
OK. So Intel opened a fab in China. What's the big deal? Or is it? What's a bigger deal? Intel's new U.S. fab or the China fab? I vote the China fab. Others out there?
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gutiea
10/29/2010 5:24 PM EDT
I vote for the Oregon Development Fab. It is 450 mm ready and changes and ends the economic for everyone.
The question in my mind is when will Intel convert older 32 nm lines to serve outside customers.
Intel could easily become a major player in Foundries, it only needs a business goal.
The China Fab lowers their cost for older technologies without having to go to a Foundry; thus the first Fab of Intel's Foundry Business just went live in China!
5 yrs from now, Intel will be a major player in the Foundry space.
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Frank Eory
10/29/2010 10:29 PM EDT
The most interesting question to me is, "what 65 nm ICs will Intel build in this fab?" I mean really, 65 nm is old school at this point.
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Bhola_#1
10/30/2010 12:39 AM EDT
Intel already have 45nm and 32 nm technology. Agree..65nm is not the latest techno.
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greenpattern
10/30/2010 4:50 AM EDT
Intel is in hot water with Fab 68. It either has to sell it or be politically incorrect by converting to 45 nm HKMG. Or maybe direct to 32 nm makes more sense. Even low end Chinese chips are moving beyond 65 nm.
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johnintheearth
11/1/2010 10:59 PM EDT
how is FAB68 life? anyone inside know?
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