FBI raids Solyndra headquarters

9/8/2011 1:23 PM EDT

Made a fool out of Odumba. That is what you get!

9/8/2011 1:54 PM EDT

This is fascinating story...perhaps Hollywood will get interested! Kris

9/8/2011 2:05 PM EDT

Smells like financial shenanigans to me. I wonder what will become of the 500+ million the taxpayers are on the hook for, time will tell. It seems very strange that this company (if memory serves me correctly) had upwards of 20 visits to the White House before the loan guarantee was made and now they are out of business. I wonder if the backers of the company were donors? This is a very interesting story with a lot going on in the background.

9/8/2011 4:17 PM EDT

Too much biased speculation and not enough information. I'll wait for the movie.

9/8/2011 4:18 PM EDT

bad management of the company!!1 should check how much money went into their management's packet!!!

9/8/2011 4:23 PM EDT

Golden chute sounding to me - wonder where the gold went. Naturally, if they thought they could
build a FAB line in Fremont for a hundred or two million - I think that might be the issue. Cal Osha and Osha itself might just charge the fool
out of them - Fremont et. al. as was the way most fabs just moved out of the nation.

9/8/2011 4:25 PM EDT

Sounds like a solar mfg is not bound at happen on large scale in US...atleast not in silicon valley. Politics a big reason for the raid. so many others have backed out out or scaled back solar ventures recently...

9/8/2011 4:33 PM EDT

The real answer is that this is a bald-faced attempt by the Obama administration to *unlawfully* jump to the head of the bankruptcy creditor line by claiming fraud, in a shameless attempt to minimize the political damage from this Green Fiasco.



By doing this, Obama is trying to screw the Creditors who loaned Solyndra money on Good Faith, based on the loan guarantees the administration is trying to weasel their way out of.

9/8/2011 4:34 PM EDT

Can anybody guess how much of the management's money went to Obama's election campaign?

9/8/2011 4:37 PM EDT

Solar fab probably can't be build economically in US...but Solyndra was going to build one in China, so this is not a primary reason for bankruptcy...does anyone understand their technology? what was special about it? Kris

9/8/2011 4:48 PM EDT

Great use of taxpayer provided stimulus money. I suppose we are going to be in a repeat loop on this until someone finally wakes up.

9/8/2011 5:02 PM EDT

Some of the tin-foil-hat speculation here ignores the simpler and more likely explanation for the sudden bankruptcy and FBI raid: certain individuals at Solyndra may have committed fraud, or at least be under investigation for fraud.

9/8/2011 5:22 PM EDT

Don't confuse loan guarantee with loan.

Dan

9/8/2011 5:26 PM EDT

(Apologies to Steve Miller)

This here's a story about Billy Stover and Brian Harri-sue
Two young greeners with nothin' better to do
Than sit around the house, get high, and watch solar tubes
And here is what happened when they decided to cut loose

They headed down to, ooh, old El Fremont
That's where they ran into a great fab hassle
Billy Sto' fleeced the man while robbing the gov'ment
Brian Harri-sue took the money and run

Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run

Peter Lee is speaking from the FBI
You know he knows just exactly what the facts is
He ain't gonna let those two escape justice
He makes his livin' off of the people's taxes

Brian Harri-sue, whoa, whoa, he slipped away
Billy Sto' caught up to him the very next day
They got the money, hey
You know they got away
They headed down south and they're still running today
Singin' go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run

9/8/2011 5:37 PM EDT

FBI suddenly cares about financial (maybe) crimes? Starting to feel like an election year.

9/8/2011 5:46 PM EDT

Come on, "we (tech people)" are supposed to be the logical ones who use facts to make decisions and don't jump to conclusions based on opinions. If "we" cannot keep the rhetoric at bay how can we expect the electorate or the government to do so?

I know much of this is "tongue in cheek", but it is sad no matter whether you call our president Obama or Odumba - we all loose. We need to look at this particular situation and see what happened. IF there was a golden parachute than we have to find out how that happened - the board approved it??

I believe the bulk of the loss here is private, and the guarantees will not cover the entire amount, but whatever the situation we need to get the emails and paperwork to find out if the company's development was handled appropriately. IF this turns into a witch hunt THEN condemn it, otherwise it's justifiable.

To complain that they went to the white house cannot be used as an argument against this administration by conservatives as big business has had their hand out and their wallets open as long as there has been a government - unfortunately it's how we do business. That is the bigger argument, and issue that must be addressed.

9/8/2011 5:50 PM EDT

Although I would like to see heads roll on behalf of the US taxpayer, I think it could be motivated more by the $1B of the investors than by the $0.5B of the taxpayers. You don't mess with the rich.

9/8/2011 5:52 PM EDT

To @switty1,"the bulk of the loss private" is probably misleading...there was $500M in federal loan money which will not be recoverable...it is your tax money(I happen to live in Canada)...Kris

9/8/2011 6:45 PM EDT

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/business/solar-company-is-searched-by-fbi.html

9/8/2011 6:57 PM EDT

500 million dollars would have saved 100 start-ups in 2009. So many new companies with real business and employment prospects had to shut down in that year because of inability to find the few million dollars needed to bridge them thru the crisis - from the CEO of a start-up fortunate to survive 2009

9/8/2011 8:52 PM EDT

I wish that the idiots that really don't have anything to add or ask would keep their petty Obama hater lines out of here. Obviously Stupid is “Alive” and living in tiny little foolish minds. Don’t try to impress us with Ignorance. Thank you. Now back to the story.

9/8/2011 8:58 PM EDT

Wall Street and Washington has interest in this case, Wall Street has tremendous influence in Washington and can influence law makers and policy in this country.

9/8/2011 10:11 PM EDT

Following along Switty's posting, isn't it curious that so little of the story is revealed, much less verified. Still, every jerk and political ideologue (pardon the redundancy) with a drum to beat is exploiting this mishap to support his prejudices. If this is how supposedly rational scientists and engineers behave, can you imagine those with no formal training or tradition of logic?

9/9/2011 12:02 AM EDT

Alas poor solar, I knew thee well.

Perhaps the business case for solar needs to be scrutinized by the GAO.

9/9/2011 12:56 AM EDT

i'm going to bed now!

9/9/2011 1:19 AM EDT

Maybe we need to implement capital punishment on the thieving management like China does. LOL, It might make them more honest.
I've actually had plans for roof of panels myself. It looks like I'll be buying Chinese. and that doesn't bother me at all.

9/9/2011 2:21 AM EDT

I don't understand. This is a serious paper, isn't it ? Then why this mostly dumb comments ???

Solyndra had started a quite interesting approach to solar and, despite one of the comments, has been very open to it. Except for cost, but you'll find no solar company advertising their prices, except Chinese guys trying to enter the market only by the (low) prices.

So Solyndra' solar panels haven't a high W/m2 ... So what ? it's the same for a-Si solutions.

Their idea was to use all these large surfaces of factories, logistic centers, supermarkets, etc. to produce solar energy. ANd for that, their technology was a great one. Easy to install, easy to maintain.

The real problem is, probably, competition - they tried hard to get projects and they got them, they have some great accomplishments, i.e. very large solar roofs, I have seen myself in Europe, but to get the projects, they had to sell at the cheapest possible price, and maybe cheaper than they were able to produce.

After all, the factory is in the US, and people didn't get paid peanuts. True, so wasn't the management either, who also probably tried to get the most out of it for itself, but that's your typical american way, isn't it ???

I repeat : their approach to solar was absolutely great, and so the support of the Obama administration absolutely right.

But what the management did, let's wait and see! I find it correct that the FBI is investigating, because, even in one year, so much money can't disappear in a factory. So something bad must have been going on there.

But blame it on your fellow americans living the american dream ... get rich, and richer, any way you can, because that's what you'll be recognized for.

9/9/2011 7:40 AM EDT

Hmmm. There were only 1000 employees at the facility. I estimate that no more than $50 million was spent on labor. That still leaves $490 million to account for, so it doesn't seem likely that the location of the facility had much to do with it.


In what way was their approach absolutely great? When entering an existing market, a new technology must either be much better or else cheaper than the existing technology. Their technology was equivalent in performance at a higher cost. Doesn't seem that great to me. Had they been the first player in the market, it might have succeeded. They were not, and so it was a lost cause to begin with.

9/9/2011 7:44 AM EDT

Despite the Tea Party and Haters, I'd be willing to bet there was an employee tipoff. Here's hoping there's huge jailtime and complete funds restitution if there was a funding scam going on.

9/9/2011 8:42 AM EDT

FBI checks their accounts,infrastructure,expenses,stocks and finds out the truth. Some time plans collapses even after making a strong project report. China competes!

9/9/2011 11:44 AM EDT

The comments on this forum are for the most part appalling and of absolutely no value. Start behaving like professionals or stop posting on a professional forum please!


Solyndra's technology was both interesting and flawed at the same time.


On the plus side, it was placement agnostic. On the very high plus side it placed very little load on the roof which allowed it to be used where the added load of ballasting and/or anchoring was not possible. There are lots of large older buildings where that is the case.


The install time was low due to the lack of racking, ballasting, etc.


The performance on a watt-hour/m2 was not as good as traditional technologies. Yes they produced higher during the morning and afternoon, but during the peak times a few hours around noon, their production was lower, white painted roof or not.


But, at the end of the day, it all comes down to $/KWH. Here, they just did not cut it. Yes it was a U.S. made plant which raised labor, but there are crystalline plants in the U.S.


What killed Solyndra is a product that was overly complex .... multiple round tubes where the active layer was built up ... inside the tube .... tubes connected together, etc. It was complex and was unlikely to ever be cheap.


What killed Solyndra was calling the market completely wrong on where prices in $/W was going.

9/9/2011 1:49 PM EDT

Does this mean that US Companies are not being able to see business in Solar Segment?. This is a growing technological field and all the companies in this field are targeting huge revenues in the coming years, where this company had different results, it is very strange!!!!

9/9/2011 2:09 PM EDT

From the very day Solyndra came out of the "closet" ( Sep '08 ) the concept had looked fishy. CIGS are notorious for being very sensitive to the right microstructure to optimize conversion efficiency - even when the carrier gases are pumped into a "solyn"der. Folks who had started much earlier with depositing CIGS on flat panels ( "Global. MiaSole, Nano Solar etc ) have never mangaged effover 11 %. NREL ( DOE Lab in Boulder. CO ) have continued to report CIGS at 16 % efficiency but these are for Lab samples. Maintaining that high an eff. at HVM requires much more R&D, preferably w/o hype, at an academic setting. Instead of funding fundamental research and small R&D projects, the Obama admin. leapt straightaway to guaranteeing $ 500 million + loan to Solyndra - to score quick political points no doubt. But I am disappointed that even Steve Chu, his Nobel laureate Sec of DOE, went along when basic math shows that the area effiiency of Solydra scheme will never exceed 60 % - even if the whole roof was painted white ( to reflect some sunlight to the dark side of those darn tubes ).

It is whispered that crony capitalism was also on play here. One of the major investors in Solyndra is a Democratic party insider from OK City.

Does not bode well for the technical competitiveness of the US.

9/9/2011 2:20 PM EDT

PV Solar is not yet cost competitive on a pure technical basis,. So there is a lot of hanky panky in all the claims & accounting, especially to address folks who cannot see beyond next quarter's returns. Same can be said for the current world - wide price leader ( but located in my town in the US ) that beats any xtalline Si panel from Chinese sweat shops in terms of installed $ / kwh.

Things are very different in Germany where PV Solar keeps expanding using European products at Euro prices, because to their credit the Germans have never followed the Anglo - US model of exploitation capitalism. Deutsche Bahn ( German Rwys ) has just committed that by '20 they will get 50 % of their electricity to run trains from Renewable sources.

9/9/2011 2:35 PM EDT

For any new technology to work, it should b better, cheaper, faster, nicer,..than the existing one. Solar PV fails in general in that respect since it still is costlier (even if is made in China or with Govt. Subsidies..) than fossil fuels based energy. OK, we want to be green, so we want to pay a bit higher to save the world. If we agree to that, then the nexrt, what is the best technology - could be solar, Wind,… Let us look at the best in each..say PV. Both a-Si Thin Film and Solyndra tech. are based on assumption that polySi price will hit the roof and so they will become cheaper. This is a faulty assumption; you cannot base a new idea based on spot prices of something. New idea should be based on something better than just the cost; NO ONE asked the question what if the poly-Si price drops? That is the simple due diligence. AMAT missed it - there no one was daring to ask that question to Mike Splinter or Mark Pinto, for fear of getting fired. Eventually AMAT failed too in thin-film a-Si Solar and had to exit the business. Since AMAT had so much cash and was doing well in silicon business, they could absorb that failure. Solydra also failed in the same due-diligence question. Government did not ask the question either - remember Steven Chu is a scientist and NOT a business man. He probably has little idea on running a profitable business.
Moral of the Story - do your due diligence first - always ask the "what if" question. Make Market Requirements Specifications (MRS). Get opinions on MRS from a varied audience (current employees, external folks, even some wall street gurus). Challenge the assumptions. Make business cases under varying scenarios - then take action. This is the scientific way. Solyndra and AMAT attempts in solar are the standing results of NOT doing any of these..

9/9/2011 2:48 PM EDT

Could be that Solyndra had no intention of building anything permanent but had, in fact, intended to use the loan to build equity prior to selling the company off shore for a profit.
This is one of the reasons the US Gov't should NOT be handling this sort of thing. They do not look any deeper than "I want".

9/12/2011 3:15 AM EDT

Interesting how $0.5B of Govt money goes into thin air in one year in an advanced, mature democracy with a discerning electorate, err.. is anything wrong here?

9/12/2011 6:44 PM EDT

We should analyze why Solyndra failed & learn from it. This is something that impact Fremont, Silicon Valley & California as a whole.

We are at risk to fall behind China in solar industry. Let's unite & help America.