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mjohns
No Program counter just means the next location to execute does not default to ...
Bob Lacovara
You know, a decade or so back there was a phenomena of naming every ...
ARM unveils 64-bit architecture
Sylvie Barak
10/27/2011 3:17 PM EDT
SANTA CLARA, Calif.--ARM Holdings has announced that its next-gen ARMv8 architecture will include the firm’s first 64-bit instruction set, pushing ARM-based processors into new segments of the consumer and enterprise markets.
Speaking at ARM TechCon 2011 in Santa Clara, Calif., ARM Chief Technology Officer Mike Muller said the new v8 architecture would consist of two main execution states: AArch64 and AArch32, with the former introducing a new A64 for 64-bit processing instruction set, while the latter would continue to support ARM’s existing instruction set.
“ARM V8 fully supports 32 bit ARMv7a software,” said Muller, adding that the architecture had been designed to “maximize the benefits across both 32-bit and 64-bit application areas."
This, he said, “would bring the advantages of energy-efficient 64-bit computing to new applications such as high-end servers and computing, as well as offering backwards compatibility and migration for existing software through a consistent architecture."
“A 64 bit OS can easily and efficiently support existing 32 bit software,” he explained.
Taking a dig at rival Intel Corp., Muller said that though the world had been done very well by Moore’s Law, “there’s nowhere else to go.” Muller said while more cores was certainly a good trend, ARM believed the future would be found in having “lots of power efficient cores rather than some more power inefficient cores.” Muller maintained that overall, the problems came down to the system level, not the cores.
ARM partners like Nvidia Corp. have already announced plans to target the server space, but before the announcement of 64-bit ARM architecture, that vision didn’t translate into much of a competitive reality, as server buyers were not likely to invest in machines that couldn’t handle the software they were running.
Despite the significance of the announcement, however, Muller warned that building a new architecture was not “a quick thing” and would take a few years, but was important in terms of scaling for ARM’s future. “It takes time to build ecosystems and we’re fully aware of that,” he said.
Indeed, the first processors based on ARMv8 will only be announced sometime in 2012, with actual server prototypes running on the new architecture expected in 2014.
“ARM was going to need to go 64-bit in the next 4-5 years for cell phones and tablets anyway,” explained analyst David Kanter of Real World Technologies. “The interesting part is that ARM partners such as Calxeda and Nvidia are clearly planning to target the server space, heading for a direction collision course with AMD, IBM, Intel and Oracle,” he said.
The question, said Kanter, was not whether ARM's 64-bit extensions would be perfectly functional, but whether ARM partners could deliver competitive products with the performance, power efficiency and reliability that customers require.
“Obviously Nvidia's strategy is going to be targeting HPC with GPUs, but that has never proven to be a market which can economically sustain a chip design company, much to SGI's detriment,” Kanter noted.
Another disadvantage, Kanter pointed out, was that most of ARM's partners were fabless and had less expertise when it came to custom design, unlike incumbents AMD, IBM, Intel and Oracle.
“They also have much less experience with the overall system and platform aspects, including the validation and testing required,” he said, explaining that for a product like a GPU –with a lifespan of about a year-- there wasn’t typically as much emphasis on correctness because bugs could be worked around. “In a server, there is very little tolerance for such things,” he said.
In his keynote address, Muller also spoke about the increased need for more heterogeneous computing, system partitioning, and solving the problems of energy efficiency in devices as systems became increasingly complex and memory intensive.
“Today, everything is an energy constrained system,” he said adding, “the solutions are all about building heterogeneous solutions.”
Speaking at ARM TechCon 2011 in Santa Clara, Calif., ARM Chief Technology Officer Mike Muller said the new v8 architecture would consist of two main execution states: AArch64 and AArch32, with the former introducing a new A64 for 64-bit processing instruction set, while the latter would continue to support ARM’s existing instruction set.
“ARM V8 fully supports 32 bit ARMv7a software,” said Muller, adding that the architecture had been designed to “maximize the benefits across both 32-bit and 64-bit application areas."
This, he said, “would bring the advantages of energy-efficient 64-bit computing to new applications such as high-end servers and computing, as well as offering backwards compatibility and migration for existing software through a consistent architecture."“A 64 bit OS can easily and efficiently support existing 32 bit software,” he explained.
Taking a dig at rival Intel Corp., Muller said that though the world had been done very well by Moore’s Law, “there’s nowhere else to go.” Muller said while more cores was certainly a good trend, ARM believed the future would be found in having “lots of power efficient cores rather than some more power inefficient cores.” Muller maintained that overall, the problems came down to the system level, not the cores.
ARM partners like Nvidia Corp. have already announced plans to target the server space, but before the announcement of 64-bit ARM architecture, that vision didn’t translate into much of a competitive reality, as server buyers were not likely to invest in machines that couldn’t handle the software they were running.
Despite the significance of the announcement, however, Muller warned that building a new architecture was not “a quick thing” and would take a few years, but was important in terms of scaling for ARM’s future. “It takes time to build ecosystems and we’re fully aware of that,” he said.
Indeed, the first processors based on ARMv8 will only be announced sometime in 2012, with actual server prototypes running on the new architecture expected in 2014.
“ARM was going to need to go 64-bit in the next 4-5 years for cell phones and tablets anyway,” explained analyst David Kanter of Real World Technologies. “The interesting part is that ARM partners such as Calxeda and Nvidia are clearly planning to target the server space, heading for a direction collision course with AMD, IBM, Intel and Oracle,” he said.
The question, said Kanter, was not whether ARM's 64-bit extensions would be perfectly functional, but whether ARM partners could deliver competitive products with the performance, power efficiency and reliability that customers require.
“Obviously Nvidia's strategy is going to be targeting HPC with GPUs, but that has never proven to be a market which can economically sustain a chip design company, much to SGI's detriment,” Kanter noted.
Another disadvantage, Kanter pointed out, was that most of ARM's partners were fabless and had less expertise when it came to custom design, unlike incumbents AMD, IBM, Intel and Oracle.
“They also have much less experience with the overall system and platform aspects, including the validation and testing required,” he said, explaining that for a product like a GPU –with a lifespan of about a year-- there wasn’t typically as much emphasis on correctness because bugs could be worked around. “In a server, there is very little tolerance for such things,” he said.
In his keynote address, Muller also spoke about the increased need for more heterogeneous computing, system partitioning, and solving the problems of energy efficiency in devices as systems became increasingly complex and memory intensive.
“Today, everything is an energy constrained system,” he said adding, “the solutions are all about building heterogeneous solutions.”
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goafrit
10/27/2011 4:21 PM EDT
Congratulations to ARM and INTEL continues to see new competitions. ARM is holding up and they should feel good. He got it right, the future is about heterogeneous systems.
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HeadhunterBKS
10/27/2011 11:54 PM EDT
I, for one, am pleased.
I currently have several ARM32 projects underway and no doubt will soon avail myself to the ARM64s as they are ready. So more MIPS is good if power demand is still admirably low.
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KB3001
11/1/2011 9:45 AM EDT
It was only a matter of time before ARM announced this. Unless they mess things up monumentally, the future is theirs in the server market IMO.
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dirk.bruere
10/27/2011 4:31 PM EDT
No mention that Windows will be running on it?
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HeadhunterBKS
10/28/2011 12:10 AM EDT
I would suspect Windows 8,
seeing as how other OEMs are working with it. CE Compact may be an option, but maybe not optimal. But certainly not RISC structured right? ICBW, but not too often. I really appreciate the open architecture format better. Expensive biannual "too little, Too Late" upgrades, fraught with problems, just don't move me! The open software is exposing the world to some really creative minds and solutions for only pennies by comparison. And always several variants(competition)with unique or at least refined approaches.
I see a singular corporate hold on the development of programs and alternatives as destructive as the Dark Ages on creativity and advancement of the quality of life and success for mankind.
Doesn't mean I do not use them, just that I keep my options open, and my DROIDs handy.
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cdhmanning
10/31/2011 7:19 PM EDT
There is absolutely no reason to suggest that Windows 8 is going to have problems with RISC.
Windows CE is not at all suited to high-end processors. It just has far too many architectural limitations.
These 64-bit ARMs are really intended for servers, not for consumer appliances where x32 is fine.
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DrDave
10/27/2011 5:20 PM EDT
Wonder what this means for MIPS?
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Cyrus4357
10/27/2011 6:56 PM EDT
perfect!
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SylvieBarak
10/27/2011 7:23 PM EDT
Windows will likely run on it, Dirk. In the press release that was issued earlier a general manager at Microsoft, KD Hallman, said:
"ARM is an important partner for Microsoft," adding, "The evolution of ARM to support a 64-bit architecture is a significant development for ARM and for the ARM ecosystem. We look forward to witnessing this technology's potential to enhance future ARM-based solutions."
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Neo1
10/27/2011 10:08 PM EDT
Wow, this is astounding. A 64 bit arm will certainly open a pandoras box hitherto unexplored. This is big news indeed and ARM is upping it's ante in the power play over next generation cpus. Don't see any immediate application for this in the mobile world, even for a tablet but as the CTO says it will be robust by the time the world needs it.
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seaEE
10/27/2011 11:20 PM EDT
The race is on to 128 bits. May the best man win.
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HeadhunterBKS
10/28/2011 12:22 AM EDT
128 bit! Hmmmm, does that mean 128 bit encryption is at higher risk? Certainly chew through options quick!
Imagine running 64 bit programs at double data rate. We're smokin chips now! :-)
Any word on clock speeds?
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David Brown
10/28/2011 4:31 AM EDT
Processors have been using longer bit widths - including 128 bits and longer - for calculations for ages. You find them in vector and SIMD extensions.
The key point about being a "64-bit architecture" is not the data width, but the address width. You need 64 bits to be able to sensibly use more than 4GB of memory. Since 64 bits is enough for 16 thousand million GB, it will be a while before you need more address bits in a single machine - even if you use some bits for address space randomisation.
There is also little call for normal integers bigger than 32-bit, never mind bigger than 64-bit. The hardware required to fully support these is out of proportion with their usefulness.
So while there will be steadily more support for longer data in vector and SIMD operations, don't expect pure 128-bit architectures to ever appear.
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ReneCardenas
10/31/2011 11:21 AM EDT
David,
Glad to see some level heads not jumpiong to conclusions about the implications of wider busses. The complexity starts to grow out of proportions along with error correction hardware. Serial busses are here to stay for a reason.
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Bob Lacovara
11/1/2011 8:44 AM EDT
In addition to SIMD and vector operations, a wider instruction word allows you to build-in hardware n-way branches, where n might be 4 to 256. The wider word, ultimately, allows you to trade off space for time.
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cdhmanning
10/31/2011 7:29 PM EDT
Why do you want 128-bit address widths?
32 bits only gives you 4Gbytes which is too small for servers.
64-bits gives you 1.8x10^19 bytes. That's more than 2Gbytes for every person on the planet and is probably more than is needed to address all the RAM in existence.
It is going to be a long time before we need a bigger address bus and it certainly is not worth the overhead for the foreseeable future.
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panzerboy
10/28/2011 12:23 AM EDT
I had assumed ARM was working on a 64bit design but was being coy to not 'Osborne Effect' Calxeda. Now Calxeda has a customer with HP ARM 64bit has come out of the closet.
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kinnar
10/28/2011 2:35 AM EDT
Since ARM is only designing IPs and if it is going to take two year to bring out the first prototype, it would be better it they plan for 128bit processing with 64bit compatibility. As all the processor manufacturers are having their 64bit variants in its place.
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Lithium-ion Battery
10/28/2011 7:37 AM EDT
Thanks for your sharing.
http://www.lxt-group.com/02/en Lithium-ion Battery
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s@mke10
10/28/2011 7:51 AM EDT
Great, that's good news!!
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Bob Lacovara
10/28/2011 9:52 AM EDT
Watching the word widths expand is amusing in a way. The instruction words are beginning to look a lot like the old "microprocessors" with 96+ bit instructions. (If you can find a copy, a truly beautiful little book by White called "Bit Slice Design" is a great read. I taught from it for years.) Then there was the IBM Thorpe architecture: 128 bits, I think, and the machine had no program counter. So how do you think it handled subroutine returns? ;-)
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mjohns
12/18/2012 11:38 PM EST
No Program counter just means the next location to execute does not default to P+1. The current micro-location is known and can be pushed on a stack with a "subroutine return" address bit flipped to create a return address when the subroutine returns. Many Prime Computers used the same tactic in their firmware next address units. Requires good software to allocate the firmware efficiently. Can't have two subroutine calls in a row without additional creativity unless you want to ping-pong forever.
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Robotics Developer
10/28/2011 12:50 PM EDT
Interesting new family direction, I wonder what the speeds will be? They talk about power being important but they are light on the details. I wonder what the mW/MHz numbers will look like (or what their target is for this next generation architecture?
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Netteligent
10/28/2011 2:25 PM EDT
Instead of wasting money, time, and resources on many expensive acquistions, either Intel or AMD should invest in ARM Holdings few years ago and let them run their own course.
Neither Intel nor AMD agreed because they want to run new acquired ARM Holdings without their management.
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Sheetal.Pandey
10/31/2011 3:36 AM EDT
Well the first thing after acquisition or merger is to wipe off the earlier management or make them immaterial in decisions.
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t.alex
10/28/2011 9:44 PM EDT
Just a matter of time to port Unix or Windows server to run on ARM servers.
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johnnyinbrisbane
10/29/2011 8:19 PM EDT
A trivial thought.....
int i=0;
while (++i != 0);
Assuming the above loop is one instruction cycle then at 10GHz it would take 58.5 years to complete.
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ReneCardenas
10/31/2011 11:47 AM EDT
Like your analysis!, but think about the next level with 128 bit logic.
The time lapsed even with a CPU running in the order of Tera-Hertz, the lapsed time is beyond earth lifetime(10^20 years).
Most semiconductor materials half-life would perish, so there may be NOT ever be a computing device that can survive that long!
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hm
10/30/2011 4:19 AM EDT
Will Altera / Xilinx be first one to offer 64 bit ARM core in generation of FPGA? Will it have DSP type capability?
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KB3001
11/1/2011 9:48 AM EDT
Do not bet on it. Those FPGA companies are very incremental in their developments :-)
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Sheetal.Pandey
10/31/2011 3:37 AM EDT
Well this is defintely a good news from ARM..
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zhgreader
11/1/2011 7:42 AM EDT
what on earth different is 64b from 32b?
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agk
11/3/2011 4:04 AM EDT
Now the kind of applications are expanding fast ,sure to go for 64 bit architectures. ARM is also doing so and many product applications will be benifited.
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Mechatism
11/3/2011 4:07 AM EDT
128 bits isn't all about memmory addressing. Many fields like Cryptography and GPS can certainly benefit from wider registers, particularly a true 128 bit, quad precision floating point capability. But simple, everyday operations can also benefit as well. High clock rates and multiple cores aren't the only roads to performance increases. Just think about string matching 16 bytes at a time!
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Bob Lacovara
11/3/2011 11:29 AM EDT
Precisely... if you are going to take up real estate with wide busses, then you may as well get everything you can for it. And that's more than addressing, branching, vector fields, and so on. There's only time, and space... if we are pushing the timing limits at the moment, then we can push out the space envelope as well.
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Bob Lacovara
11/3/2011 11:31 AM EDT
You know, a decade or so back there was a phenomena of naming every one-researcher lab a "Center of Excellence" in this, that or the other thing. As though anyone ever started a "Center of Good Enough" or "Center of Mediocrity". This trend seems to have diminished. Thank heavens: many of these Centers weren't much more than a letterhead.
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