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densfordt
I am thinking that someone was perusing Ebay and, by accident, happened to see ...
przemek
How did the IP protection issue get mixed in here? These were just regular CPUs ...
Engineers arrested for selling Intel test CPUs on eBay
Sylvie Barak
1/3/2012 4:20 PM EST
SAN FRANCISCO--Four engineers have been arrested by Taiwan’s Criminal Investigation Bureau (CIB) for allegedly selling off Intel Corp. CPU samples on eBay for personal financial gain.
The CIB released a statement on Monday (Jan. 1) saying the four, confirmed to be engineers working for Intel's OEM manufacturers in Taiwan, had been apprehended in the city of Taoyuan.
Detectives had been tracking the suspects since September, conducting a raid on their homes last month, taking 178 sample CPUs – worth an estimated $82,500—into police custody.
According to the CIB’s statement, the suspects admitted to selling more than 500 Intel engineering sample CPUs since 2009.
The samples, of the sort usually sent out to OEM manufacturers before commercial releases, were beta version integrated circuits designed for compatibility qualification tests, the CIB said.
Engineering samples are the sole property of Intel and are produced and provided to Intel customers for product research and development purposes only. Intel’s customers are required to either return them to Intel or ensure that the engineering samples are destroyed.
Being engineering samples, the CPUs were sometimes of a rare type, said the CIB, making them all the more desirable to tinkerers looking for chips with unlocked multipliers.
The Taiwanese agency is now strongly urging people not to buy any more of the engineering sample CPUs online and reminded engineers thinking of running similar profit schemes that they could face up to five years in prison if caught.
Intel refused to comment.
The CIB released a statement on Monday (Jan. 1) saying the four, confirmed to be engineers working for Intel's OEM manufacturers in Taiwan, had been apprehended in the city of Taoyuan.
Detectives had been tracking the suspects since September, conducting a raid on their homes last month, taking 178 sample CPUs – worth an estimated $82,500—into police custody.
According to the CIB’s statement, the suspects admitted to selling more than 500 Intel engineering sample CPUs since 2009.
The samples, of the sort usually sent out to OEM manufacturers before commercial releases, were beta version integrated circuits designed for compatibility qualification tests, the CIB said.
Engineering samples are the sole property of Intel and are produced and provided to Intel customers for product research and development purposes only. Intel’s customers are required to either return them to Intel or ensure that the engineering samples are destroyed.
Being engineering samples, the CPUs were sometimes of a rare type, said the CIB, making them all the more desirable to tinkerers looking for chips with unlocked multipliers.
The Taiwanese agency is now strongly urging people not to buy any more of the engineering sample CPUs online and reminded engineers thinking of running similar profit schemes that they could face up to five years in prison if caught.
Intel refused to comment.
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Frank Eory
1/3/2012 5:51 PM EST
Not exactly a brilliant career move :)
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yalanand
1/4/2012 9:58 AM EST
Exactly...can't imagine selling stolen things on ebay...
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iniewski
1/3/2012 6:23 PM EST
who buys those test devices? do they come with a manual on how to operate them?
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phoenixdave
1/4/2012 12:08 PM EST
These Engineering Samples can also contain valuable technical information that could be of great value to Intel competitors, which is why their distribution is typically very restricted.
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Winbond_#1
1/3/2012 7:59 PM EST
Generally operating a CPU does not require a manual but just a mainboard that has the right socket for the CPU...
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t.alex
1/7/2012 7:24 PM EST
But end consumers can just buy and drop into their PC?
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Neo1
1/3/2012 9:06 PM EST
Selling Engg samples on ebay, and what would they advertise it as? I think they were also cheating because saying they were samples would not have brought any buyers to them.
Just plain dumb.
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eewiz
1/3/2012 10:45 PM EST
this happens all the time. Unreleased Intel chips fetch big money from ebay by bloggers who want to review them.
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kinnar
1/4/2012 1:12 AM EST
In third world countries these CPUs can be easily sold in replacement of its original variant. This the money earned out of the said quantity will not be much but the purchaser might suffer as the CPUs are beta. But in these countries this does not matter much as there the market is already flooded with other duplicates, and they are used to with that.
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elctrnx_lyf
1/4/2012 6:33 AM EST
Sounds very silly idea to make money!
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kg5q
1/4/2012 10:10 AM EST
just watch a few years from now they will be CEO's of something! This is the entry level moves necessary to get to the top these days
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ReneCardenas
1/4/2012 10:51 PM EST
Perhaps of their cell living quarters, but it takes more clever piramid schems to make the big bucks.
If you are suggesting that top level individuals are all criminals?
That is very offensive to many.
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Speedo68
1/4/2012 10:16 AM EST
So, company I work at makes PC components. We get roughly 200~500 Engineering Example (ES) Intel CPUs. And you are working on 3 or 4 different types of Intel CPUs, SB/SB-E/IB/Xeon. So maybe up to 2~3k chips total at a decent size facility in Taiwan/China.
After weeks of developemental work, I am tasked to dispose of said CPUs. So, instead of destroying, I sell them on Ebay for $250~600 each.
Not worth it, but seen it happen countless times. Any good PC Builder know's how/where this EN CPUs come about. I really have no qualms buying or running one if I can get one. But, it's a risk you take when you illegally sell an item that does not belong to you.
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Bob Lacovara
1/4/2012 12:56 PM EST
Speedo68, just out of curiosity: if you know an item is stolen, why do you have no qualms about buying it? If I knew someone stole your laptop, should I have no qualms about buying it?
One might argue that a certain amount of Intel's IP is being stolen and resold. As engineers, our main product is often IP. If we do not honor other people's property rights to their IP, why should they honor ours?
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CommonSense
1/4/2012 1:33 PM EST
@Bob; Are you suggesting that they, or we, should have some integrity? (insert sarcasm icon here.)
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Bob Lacovara
1/4/2012 1:46 PM EST
CommonSense, yes, I suppose that's what I'm suggesting. If you've read my posts, you'll know that I'm not above sarcasm and a certain (sometimes excessive) disdain for "revealed truths", but basically, yes: if we as a profession do not act in an upright manner, do not take the high road, then we can't really expect anyone to do so. I suppose this sounds banal to some people, but we see examples of IP theft right, left and center. So the issue isn't a non-starter.
The argument that grinds me is along these lines: that Intel (or Microsoft, or whoever) is so wealthy that they could never miss what I've taken (or borrowed...). That's nonsense, of course, unless the object is a pencil or paperclip or a meaningless commodity item. Sample chips, IP, etc. are a different story altogether. Where do you draw the line? I'm not sure in general, but I know theft when I see it. A friend has a pen marked "Boeing"? I laugh. A friend has a 'scope marked "Boeing"? That's very disturbing. For our common good, honesty may or may not be the best policy, but it is the most sane policy.
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pmoyle
1/4/2012 4:15 PM EST
Although I have never even thought about anything like this, I have to say that the corporate behavior of Microsoft and Intel do not exactly inspire one to the highest standards of ethics.
Both of them have been repeatedly fined for predatory behavior and other such antics. MS should have been forced to split as was the original punishment; I can't help wondering how they got out of that.
Both of them have most likely caused far more damage to other companies than what their punishment was, and after said companies were destroyed, the said punishment is little more than symbolic.
That said, there is no excuse for the employees behavior, however, one can make the argument that it is karma.
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P_brane
1/5/2012 9:49 PM EST
I agree 100% Bob. Ideas, which are the stuff of IP are more valuable than any gold on any market but to me they are more valuable again as they are the often unique product of the human mind (either solo or in a team) solving a problem. If we do not value our own thought output or those of our profession or peers, we value naught.
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kg5q
1/4/2012 11:56 AM EST
i wonder if they got good feedback on ebay?
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
1/9/2012 6:08 AM EST
kg5q: "I wonder if they got good feedback on ebay?"
That was a good one.
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help.fulguy
1/4/2012 1:33 PM EST
Hi Sylvie,
Your love to Intel is very clear. You cleverly mention "Intel engineers were caught" in the summary on the main page of EETimes, but when you read the article, it's engineers from some other company were caught(which you interestingly dont mention the company name). Good job. Kudos to EETimes for having such good journalists like you and Rick and Dillon.
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SylvieBarak
1/4/2012 4:51 PM EST
hi! Well, the reason i didn't cite which company the engineers work for is that it's actually unclear to me too. The CIB report first cites them as Intel engineers and then claims they work for Intel partners. Intel would neither confirm or deny. So I'm afraid I'm as confused as you are on the true corporate affiliations of these guys.
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Mr. Krabby
1/6/2012 4:32 PM EST
IT states 'working for Intel's OEM manufacturers' so they obviously were not Intel employees. Also, I periodically see ES parts on eBay here in the states, usually from sellers in Texas. As someone here mentioned, bad career move.
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help.fulguy
1/6/2012 4:52 PM EST
Hey Sylvie, it you are unclear, isn't it as a journalist you have to say so, rather than make assumption and say that they are Intel engineers? If you dont know, then shut the F*** Up. Dont call anyone by name! But, your summary on EETimes page, continues to say that they were Intel engineers. Why?
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SylvieBarak
1/7/2012 1:34 AM EST
Helpfulguy, you're a little obnoxious, don't you think? Your comment, as per usual, is uncalled for, rude, and cowardly (it's very easy to attack someone from behind a very "unhelpful" pseudonym). Clearly you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about me. Not sure what it is, but, I'm pretty sure you would never have the guts to use your foul language to my face. So enjoy using it from behind your screen, chuckling to yourself :) In my article it clearly says: "The CIB released a statement on Monday (Jan. 1) saying the four, confirmed to be engineers working for Intel's OEM manufacturers in Taiwan, had been apprehended in the city of Taoyuan." - Have a great weekend!
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mike655mm
1/4/2012 6:42 PM EST
These are likely engineers working for OEMs in Taiwan, not for Intel. Intel has no factories in Taiwan but they provide tons of ES units to OEMs for validation and qual in preparation for new product launches. These should be scrapped when no longer needed, but if not well controlled by OEMs can end up in the market.
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Michael.Fliesler
1/4/2012 5:28 PM EST
Since these are ES (Engrg samples), they have also not been tested over the full datasheet voltage & temp range, so they may fail in a customer's socket. This could be serious: for example, some years ago, EPROMs were in short supply, and several otherwise reputable mfgrs got some "gray mkt" parts with AMD part markings. These turned out to be test rejects which had been sold out in the parking lot. One of these found its way into a critical piece of medical equipment. The chip failed, and the patient died. AMD was able to trace the package & die ID & produce records that these failing devices had supposedly been scrapped, so AMD was off the hook. Not so the miscreants... jail time. Human life ain't worth a few bucks.
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elPresidente
1/4/2012 6:38 PM EST
Your "facts" are presuming a lot in order to serve your Chicken Little agenda. They are betas, so it's likely the were tested and have documented errata - if Sylvie had a clue, she'd realize these were likely INTEL builds to provide to software developers - there's no mystery that software magically appears the day a new CPU is released.
In most parts of Asia, human life is worth 1/10th the price of an Intel CPU....in the USA, less so, since a lot of people could care less if you die without health care, which makes your lifeline CPU argument irrelevant and naive.
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SylvieBarak
1/4/2012 6:55 PM EST
I'm not sure what you're saying I need to have "a clue" about... Your comment is not particularly constructive. I reported a story with all the "facts" provided by the CIB. I asked Intel to confirm them. Intel would not comment. Would you rather I conjecturefacts out of thin air all by myself? Or not report the story at all? Your comment made little sense to me, sorry.
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Bob Lacovara
1/5/2012 12:10 PM EST
elPresidente, it's a bit hard to understand what your complaint is. SylvieBarak has a hidden agenda, therefore, something is wrong with her facts as taken from a CIB report? Or something must necessarily be wrong with her conclusions? This is an ad hominem attack, which insults a person while promoting a fallacy: that because her motivations are not yours, her conclusions are necessarily incorrect. Not so: even if she is a firm believer in black magic, and likes children (roasted, they taste just like chicken) this doesn't affect the validity of her argument. Secondly, you mention that these parts were "likely" documented. Um, maybe, maybe not, but surely you don't expect that these chips were handed over in a brown paper bag in the parking lot along with Intel test reports? C'mon. This article is about theft, not about engineering data on the stolen material. Lastly, what is your "hidden agenda"? Your comment on the worth of human life doesn't say "worth" to whom. Is your life worth more than 1/10 that of a CPU? To whom? Those values may be yours, but there's no justification to assume that any or even some of us equate the lives of total strangers with $50 or $60.
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SylvieBarak
1/5/2012 12:43 PM EST
Thanks Bob :) +1
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Mr. Krabby
1/6/2012 4:28 PM EST
Huh? That has what to do with the article?
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ReneCardenas
1/4/2012 11:05 PM EST
Sylvie, I do appreciate the value of the story and its limitations. So do not feel forced to explain or justify yourself.
The story is Intel has very poor control mechanism if is allowing it's sample/beta units out of sight. I blame them as well as the OEM for not having checks and avoid this all together. This piece of news reflects very poorly in those individuals that have chosen a quick buck, and put their profesion on the line.
I can not see why would anyone jeprosize their life and profession for less than a honest living salary.
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P_brane
1/5/2012 9:25 PM EST
I admit I find what elPresidente is saying confusing and were I Sylvie I would be annoyed. Her story was clear to me and worth knowing. When I re-read the thread it looks like some of elPresidentes discussion is directed at the previous respondent as well as Sylvie. Having lived and worked in many parts of Asia as a consultant I can say that there is a very heterogeneous mix of corporate ideals and norms just as there are in any of the other parts of the globe I have lived and worked. Perhaps the one grain of fact hiding in elPresidente's comments is that in some geographically Asian cultures, individual intellectual property as a concept (and therefore logically Corporate IP) does not exist in the minds of those "running" the countries and in many citizens.
It is also a common thread amongst human rights groups and philosophers that a country cannot develop workable IP rights laws until it recognises that individuals have rights. Having found my own hardware designs and "firmware" on sale in parts of Asia I can attest to the difficulty of pursuing the concept.
Taiwan is different however. It does have well developed copyright, patent and IP laws and regulations. This is one good reason why a large OEM and silicon Fab business has developed there. Some of its neighbors are poles apart in this regard and doing business with them is therefore fraught with potential dangers and costs often overlooked. It would seem clear to me that Intels own audit and controls group should know what the procedures are within OEMs and it would be (and should be) embarassing to have the Taiwan CIB break this news to them.
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Texassignaltech
1/6/2012 9:32 AM EST
Unfortunately for American technology companies, intellectual theft in Asia has become more of a profession rather than a pastime.
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lakehermit
1/6/2012 2:35 PM EST
It is not surprising that it happened, it is surprising that Tiawan's officials bothered to investigate and arrest the thieves. Intel must have a lot of influence over there.
This is an excellent example of the result of US government interference in US business. The high price of government tax and regulation causes companies to send jobs overseas which in turn results in the wholesale theft of intellectual property. Now there are huge thriving corporations that sell nothing more than copied IP.
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EREBUS
1/7/2012 5:17 PM EST
I appreciate the story as an awareness to all that chip samples are being misused by people who have no morals. The social and political discussions are useless. Theft is theft. It is wrong and should not be tolerated by anyone at any level. If any of your stuff were stolen and resold you would not be happy. You should always treat the property of others as if it were your own. That way you have no ambiquity in knowing what to do. Considering your theft justified under the "steal from the rich and give to the poor" attitude is wrong. Engineers are supposed to be professionals. Theft is not an engineering attribute.
Just my opinion.
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http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/poconoarmchairreview
1/9/2012 6:07 AM EST
Flash Imaginary Update to Story: Arrested engineers asked to perform community service by recruiting young people to engineering, and judge science fair entries.
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przemek
1/9/2012 9:28 AM EST
How did the IP protection issue get mixed in here? These were just regular CPUs that didn't reveal any secrets; people bought them as discounted CPUs for their PCs; the whole point was that these were just like regular CPUs. It's a simple commercial theft case.
There was another case: an armed robbery of a large amount of flash memory. Again, IP theft and/or espionage was brought up---but it was just generic flash memory!
What is it with this knee-jerk reaction?
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densfordt
1/9/2012 4:43 PM EST
I am thinking that someone was perusing Ebay and, by accident, happened to see the chips for sale and alerted the authorities who then performed due diligence.
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