Yoshida in China: What is the Chinese Dream?

9/10/2012 12:25 AM EDT

I think you are reading too much of the media's view on the republican party. They don't hold the "everything for my family and friends; nothing for anyone else" view you allude to. We don't believe that people shouldn't be helped, it's that that federal government of the US shouldn't be the one providing all the support. There are local levels that work much better for that, starting with family and local communities.

And in answer to the Chinese Dream - the answer seems obvious from the outside looking in. Using my best William Wallace (cue Braveheart images) impression - "FREEDOM!!!".

9/10/2012 12:42 AM EDT

I don't know that we could really say that "freedom" is the Chinese dream. If I were living under an authoritarian government, I would want to get out or find a way to free myself and the others around me, but I'm not convinced that the Chinese as a whole or all cultures strive for freedom, or at least not freedom by our standards.

I also don't think that it's our place to decide if other peoples should want freedom by our standards. What is our place, in my opinion, is to be an example of what limitless possibilities there are when free. We are far from perfect because we are human, but we are and should be a beacon of hope.

We have had civil war, civil strife, world war, depression, recession, oppression, hatred and all of the other bad things that humans do to humans, but because we do have freedom, little by little over the years, we have made ourselves a better people. We have, by example, inspired others to be free.

There are plenty of people who are perfectly satisfied with easy and are more than happy to accept easy over freedom. If not, authoritarian governments would disappear. Most of us here in the U.S. would very much rather have freedom that we need to work for, than an easy life without that freedom. Not much is easy in the U.S., but almost anything is possible. That "almost anything is possible" is the American dream in my mind.

9/10/2012 12:59 AM EDT

I met a Chinese business man in tech who recently returned to China and bemoaned the fact that everyone is out for themselves.

It seems it makes for a cold world if the dog-eat-dog business culture is the only culture and getting yours for you and your circle is the only value.

9/10/2012 1:02 AM EDT

freedom, lmao, you mean freedom to access porn video, freedom to own a machine gun? save it to yourself.

freedom... you will never get real freedom in any place, you can't drink beer if you are below 21 in US, in china you can.
so what's the point, a vote? yeah right if it really matters.

9/10/2012 1:13 AM EDT

I am very cool with current chinese leadership. my only wish is they get themselves disciplined better.
They keep your TV clean and street safe, and shut out the liberal idiots fast and sweepingly. You don't have to have the headache to waste your time to argue with em.

yeah, americans , enjoy your mormon president.

9/10/2012 1:16 AM EDT

what's real american dream ( for many)
answer: 4 wives, maybe more...
free sex ( easy to conclude from american's favorite American pie series)

9/10/2012 2:08 AM EDT

@ junko
uh... if you really follow chinese blogs/tweets/discussions

it's conquer japan...

9/10/2012 2:18 AM EDT

I was wih you until your last sentence, which struck me as utterly absurd, Junko.

First, the American dream is hard to define, but I would say it has something to do with being free to follow your own star, and to be as successsful at it as your stamina allows. Unencumbered by an overly meddling government or Party apparatus.

Clearly, not all Americans dream of riches. They simply want to be able to pursue their passion.

I don't necessarily buy this idea that strong government control is necessary at a particular stage, most especially in a culture that is the oldest one on the planet. The idea begs the question, then when is it time for less government control?

And I fail to see what about strong government control strikes you as being remotely similar to the Republican party ideals. (Leaving aside their recently acquired religious rhetoric, of course, which itself is cetainly not similar to Chinese government rhetoric).

And too, there is something that makes it difficult to compare the American ethos with that of most other cultures, including European cultures. And that is, the rights that Amercians have are not bestowed upon them by the government, by a "leader," by a monarch, or by anyone else. The rights are intrinsic, from birth. Most other cultures don't quite get this concept, as far as I have been able to tell.

9/10/2012 3:42 AM EDT

Junko, I think a strong reason you or Fallows might have that non-altruistic impression of China is that the population is huge. True altruism cannot be practiced effectively, and even with strong government intervention, which would be frowned upon, I don't think you'll get any sincere altruism, with such a large population, with the tendency to large income gaps.

9/10/2012 3:45 AM EDT

The Chinese want to live in a peaceful country, which they consider to be the middle of the world, pursue their food, their culture, and their traditional ways of life. The rest of the world is irrelevant and not worth knowing. They want to have nothing to do with foreigners, foreign culture, or foreign political ideas.

That has always been the Chinese way, never changing for 5000 years, until foreigners forced them to buy drugs at gun point, to be divided up, enslaved, and wholesale slaughtered.

Having a dream implies discontent with the present. Their ideal is to be content. They don't need a dream.

9/10/2012 7:27 PM EDT

Individually, “Chinese Dream” for a Chinese adult is to be admired/respected by his/her peers.
As a nation, “Chinese Dream” is to be the superpower that U.S. was. i.e. every other country need to take the Chinese national interests into consideration when making decisions, just like they normally bowed before American pressure. Having military bases in other countries. Making RMB the standard currency for international merchandise transaction, (especially in oil and other commodity deals).

9/11/2012 9:24 AM EDT

"So, I wonder. Am I alone in thinking that China — supposedly the last great stronghold of Communism — seems to have an awful lot in common, philosophically, with the Republican Party?"


No you are not, Junko. The political spectrum goes into full circle. The extreme left and the extreme right are surprisingly very close. That is why you had people like the late Christopher Hitchens (RIP) for example who started his life as a Trotskyist and ended up a Neo-Con!


To go back to dream question, I believe in a universal human dream, not an American, Chinese or other. Chinese people nowadays want economic progress first and foremost, that's a basic human need which all humans value first and foremost. According to Maslow, security, love and belonging come after, then esteem and self-actualisation.

Americans for instance did not yearn for their independence from the British because they ideologically valued freedom. American independence was dictated by economic interests first and foremost. Of course, the narrative changed afterwards to sell the idea to the masses but underneath all, it was about economics.

Before I am accused of having a materialistic (Marxist) view of the world, I must say that I do recognise that there were instances in history where economic interests did not dictate behaviour, but these are expections rather than the rule. Anyway, I could go on forever about this subject, but this site is not the proper outlet...

9/11/2012 1:27 PM EDT

I do not like the equation of materialistic = Marxist. In my opinion Americans are more materialistic than anybody else in this world. For that matter all the nations decide their policies on materialistic views.

9/11/2012 11:00 PM EDT

Hello Junko,

Try keeping your political view out of the "News & Analysis" section of EETimes. It should NOT be here. If you feel that you must "share" your opinion, it should be in an EE Life blog or similar.

That last sentence was JUNK[O]! Trust me, that's the nicest thing I could say about it.

It would be nice if UBM management would tell you the same thing, but based on other information I've read on the site - I doubt it.

9/12/2012 4:13 AM EDT

U have a good understanding on Chinese.

9/12/2012 6:13 AM EDT

@Bert22306, in simple terms, both the extreme left and the extreme right have a materialistic interpretation of human development. The extreme left use this to come to the conclusion that individual ownership should give way to common ownership, whereas the extreme right use this to come to the conclusion that common ownership should give way to individual ownership. It's a subtle point but a valid one nonetheless.

I repeat what I said above: political views go full circle and that is why it's surprisingly easy sometimes for people on the extreme left to switch to the extreme right, and vice-versa. The fact that both extremes start from the same philosophical point (a materialistic interpretation of human development) means they have a lot of common, yet they arrive to opposite conclusions! I believe this is the point Junko was trying to make at the end, although the use of "republican party" touched few nerves (understandably). AFAIC, political parties are broad churches with a spectrum of views and mixture of influences. It's hence hard to categorise them...