@drw36 - yeah, I saw that. I'm amazed at how small things are getting. SMD is great, but developing this stuff as a hobbist is a major pain. It's getting to the point where I can't even etch boards @ home any more because I cant get the traces small enough with good enough quality to make the board viable! How do the "professionals" do it I wonder? I wonder how engineers are designing and building things like cell phones and MP3 players, TVs, etc; since they aren't building these circuits on a breadboard anymore.. they have to be prototyping these out somehow, though probably not physically anymore.. Allego/orCad, Altium, CadSTAR and the like are good - but is the simulation software really that good?