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Managing a large scale VoIP platform. Developing security measures that identify and squash fraud. Creating useful user interfaces that get not so technical people information that they desire in an autonomous manner.

Rookie

Developing a new SCADA platform...

Blogger

Thank you Brian and Alex, it was very instructive

 

intelligent apps in the future

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how could we improve the connectivity in future

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security could be the challenge in future

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security a concern

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Thank you Brian and Alex

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Vendor dependent and interchangeable via standards

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Security, Performance

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What about security and safety in open architecture?

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Interested in Zigbee and BT interfaces: sensors - monitoring, control and automation

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General interest of modern industrial process

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Relevant Intel Intelligent Systems Framework (ISF) links:

 

Intel Intelligent Systems Framework page:

 

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/intelligent-systems.html

 

Intel Embedded Design Center (registration required):

https://www-ssl.intel.com/p/en_US/embedded/login?

 

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1 Security

2 Manageability

3 Performance

4 Connectivity

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Thanks Brian; very informative lecture

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good day to all, thanks

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thank you good info, thanks

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Alex Cohen

Production Test

Airbourne  Computer servers

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Thanks Brian Baily and EE Tines etal. Rodney B. Rutherford

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Good afternoon, everyone

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Great discussion today.

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OK, I think the questions for today have dried up, so I will see you all tomorrow.

Blogger

Nice example. The user has some control - by specifying http or shttp and many embedded standards/protocols. The user has to be spared from having to understand the underlying technology and when that happens more "users" will be able to create apps.

Blogger

I just thought of another example, HTML. I create a web  page with HTML, it goes through 100s of differnet protocols but in the end it gets to my browser and renders correctly (usually). This is only one way, but maybe helps to explain what I mean.

 

OK Jeff - I agree in that a reliable system should probably dever depend on a single standard. That is what I mean by higher levels of protocol also need to be defined that are transport independent. SHould be able to set at the API what level of security required, what level of importance etc, and then have the software decide the best comms to use.

Blogger

Not sure that software defined radio is the best tradeoff when low power is important, but if power is not an issue, then yes.

Blogger

@DavidWR, yes but that data should be made available to others systems as well. SQL may be the way that happens, but there are other options as well such as publish/subscribe protocols.

As networks get to be higher bandwidth, they also tend to be longer latency. Part of this is because of data aggregation. Pack more data together so that every packet takes longer, but now lakes longer to get to the next packet. Success depends on more reliable transport than for smaller packets.

 

Blogger

Isnt software defined radio the answer to this problem? Does it cost justifys in a factory environment?

Rookie

Ability to take the data from say a CAN bus and ethernet and make it available to the system. I may have two systems that use different transports but I should not require any particular transport to connect the data from them. The idea is to separate the data from the transport type.

ya thats something encouraging to go for DASH7.

Rookie

Perhaps by aggregation you mean the ability to use multiple means of communications in the same way our smartphones do. Use Wifi, if not available use 4G if not available use 3G if not available ...

Blogger

Jeffery: As I consolidate "upwards" I consolidate in custom Ethernet packets and then send them on to an SQL Server/Database  (Usually Interbase -- because of small memory/disk footprint) -- usually to a Linux server. Is that what you are thinking?

Rookie

Glad that helped. I love the way it says that it can coexist with wifi better than wifi can!

Blogger

ya just reveiwed it. now i'm getting the picture about the issues in merging protocols.

Rookie

Not sure I know what you mean by aggregation in this regard?

Blogger

I think what I mean is a way to aggregate any communication standard, not a standard to replace all others.

See you all tomorrow - thanks everybody.

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You are welcome. Glad that they are hittingh the right mark.

Blogger

@link2sriram - go back and take a look at the slide on dash7 from yesterday. While I dont agree with some of their determinations, it laid out many of the things that can be considered in terms of wireless connection. But those requirements may not be suitable at all for use in a car.

Blogger

In sensors we trade off speed , electrical noise, heat, distance security and a host of concerns. I cannot imagine one electrical spec and one communications protocol.

 

Rookie

that was a useful session. thank u all for the answers & Thank u brian.

Rookie

Yes - I think we will have stanbdardization in vertical markets - suchy as automotive that develops standards that are tailored for the noise that they typicall see and for the data requirements they have. Some say that CAN is reaching the end of its life because the needs have changed since its definition.

Blogger

THANK YOU MCLAUS & brian that's something i wanted to know.

Rookie

I think we need additional standards that are a level up from the transport protocols. We need things that all content to be more standadized as well. Just think of the number of audio formats. It is a waste of effort to have everyone able to code/decode from all of the formats.

Blogger

Different protocols implement different requirements - deterministsm vs. very high bandwidth for exmple.  Everything is a trade-off depending upon what your requirements are.  So I don't think there can ever be just 1 - maybe a handful will eventually emerge

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What might be the major issue in framing a single protocol. I'm sorry i not aware that ther's one.

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hI EVERYONE.

I am here.

 

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A single protocol able to do everything - is that why Esperanto has been so successful?

Blogger

@link2sriram I agree, I think higher level protocols like MQTT and DDS are a step in that direction, there are many others too.

Managament can be many things - including upgrade functions which I will talk about later in the week.

Blogger

mclaus - I will admit to not being an expert in that area and I have not dug deeply into the standards there. I will see if I can find something for you.

Blogger

And what did you mean by centralized management. It sounded more like centraized control to me.

Instead of these many protocols being used (LIN,CAN,I2C), why can't there be a single universal protocol which can adapt almost any application's requirement? This would enable developers from one company migrate to the other without too much of protocol updation right

Rookie

Brian - Can you please speak to what are the emerging standards in the area of centralized management? 

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Brian - Can you pklease speak to what are the emerging standards in the area of centalized management? 

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Currently using FlexRay.  Also 802.11 wireless.  TCP/IP for external communications. 

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"But how do YOU ensure that this is a person you want to extract data from your phone? " Has to be through harware root of trust I would think.

YEs - where money is concerned, security becomes a concern.

Blogger

Thank you Brian and Alex.

Rookie

If I missed somes question, please put them in again so that I can trake a stab at them.

Blogger

@Jeffrey  We recently recruited a guy who works on windows kernel basically RTOS like windows mobile, windows CE whish are windows based RTOSes

Rookie

The folks doing internet gambling have learned a LOT about security in the last few years - they are a good source of security consultants when you start to plan your system connectivity.

Rookie

Cell phones are authenticated - yes. To ensure they belong on that network. But how do YOU ensure that this is a person you want to extract data from your phone? With a call, you filter based on caller-id, which can be manipulated.

Blogger

We recently recruited a guy who works on windows kernel basically RTOS like windows mobile, windows CE whish are windows based RTOSes

Rookie

I think virtualization and hypervisors are more important than the OS. An OS will always be vulnerably, but if you can constrain it to the running process, then that is a big step forward.

 

Blogger

"How do you authenticate newcomers" Don't cell phone carriers do this every day?

For people needing wireless -- if info qty is small and reliability is important just use the 433Mhz and 868-915 MHz packages -- like TI sells -- see CC110L in TI store for example. It's worth evaluating. and relatively cheap to try.

Rookie

Thanks Brian and Alex - Emad from Iran.

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Before recommending a netwotk for a noisy environment, I would suggest finding out wheere the noise is in the specturm. Analyze first, then it may just be a matter of going to a frequency band that is less noisy - so a switch from 802.11n to a maybe.

 

Blogger

@link2sriram what is a Windows Based RTOS?

Another great session - thank you both.

 

Rookie

Yes - I think we need networks to be very adaptive and to form ad-hoc connections, but I am not sure the seciurity issues for those have been fully worked out yet. How do you authenticate newcomers.

Blogger

Brian - Can you pklease speak to what are the emerging standards in the area of centalized management? 

Rookie

Regarding security is it good to go with Linux based RTOS or Windows based RTOS because its a mayhem here with our programmers when it comes to security issues.

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Thank you Brian and Alex

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Currently using FlexRay.  Also 802.11 wireless.  TCP/IP for external communications. 

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I have seen examples where a single sensor has been replaced by several muchlower resolution ones where collectively they can provide more accurate data and provide a level of reliability. If a sensor goes down, the other reconfigure.

Blogger

Thanks Brain & Alex

 

Rookie

Thank you Alex & Brian.

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You asked earlier which protocols are we using and many answered with physical transports such as I2C, profinet, etc., but shouldn't we have etensible protocols that allow for connections that may not have been forseen initially as you talked about yesterday?

thank you Brian & Alex

Rookie

Brian as u said Wifi is a good protocol but we are facing problem with it while using it for our bakery automation. As the microwaves eat up all the signal. any alternatives?

Rookie
 
 
Use a network on 5 GHz rather than 2.4 GHz
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That should be MITI -- Japan research.

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We will talk abaout virtualization a lot more tomorrow, so I will defer that question for now.

 

Blogger

what are ur suggestions on virtualization softwares for embedded systems?

Rookie

thanks alex and brian for the interesting interaction.

Rookie

Another great session - thank you both.

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Thanks, Very good presentation

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Brain thank you for the lecture.

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Thank you Alex and Brian.

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@Jeff.Rochow -- Embedded neural/fuzzy logic. Seen that in assy robots -- MITIO research etc. That's all I know.

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Can you speak to what are the emerging standards in the area of centalized management? 

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@jerry: speed, perhaps?

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Thanks Brian and Alex for the great session. Lots of food for thought. See all tomorrow.

Rookie

what are ur suggestions on virtualization softwares for embedded systems?

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Brian, thank you for the lecture

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Why has Echelon's LONworks architecture not caught on as much as some other vendors in spite of their cost and technical benefits?

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Do you have an example of a sensor device with an embedded neural net?!!!

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Brian as u said Wifi is a good protocol but we are facing problem with it while using it for our bakery automation. As the microwaves eat up all the signal. any alternatives?

Rookie

Need support across the ecosystem.  But, one-word bullet items are dangerous.  Your "Manageability" may not be what I think "Manageability" is.  Need common understanding.  If I offer a "Managed Runtime", who would automatically think that I was talking about Java?

Rookie

Power is something which we in our company are unable to cope up with. Frequently power shortages are troublesome.

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we select qualified vendors.

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Different vendors offer different options - better to bundle

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Do you have an example of a sensor device with an embedded neural net?!!!

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Everything bundled? Not sure it's an issue -- it's convenient -- if everything works.

Prepared ot find components from many sources.

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I agree with bundling and being able to configure. Single or two vendors max.

 

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Robust Optimal bundle

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Same vendor is prefered for solid interoperability & security

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bundled fits time constraints

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Probably the bundle will not cover all applications. Important is to cover the vast majority of your applications.

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We ultimately need to take responsibility for our own products, but it sure helps to get support from the different vendors.

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bundled but configurable.

 

Rookie

sorry for my typo error.

 

Rookie

Wifi i sok but we are facing problem with it while using it for our bakery automation. As the microwaves eat up all the signal. any alternatives?

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Thanks for the extra time.

Rookie

Is slide 14 talking about Managemnet or Control?

It is also a matter of tradeoffs cost vs. flexibility or cost vs. Security.

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They have infiltrated the Tire Preasure monitor on Cars.

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I agreed with Jeffrey

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@mclaus, I would start with a security plan for your system.

i agreed with lyrad. security should be included in all aspects of the design by default

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In old times USB sticks had a write protect switch. I have one and I can identify infected PCs as they try to write the USB and cannnot if write protect is on (they issue an write errror message).

Rookie

On proection, I like to think of Safety as protecting the world from the device, but security is procting the device from the world. In the factory, we tend to be good at safety but not security.

What are the best ways to protect our connected systems from security violations?

Rookie

1. Complexity
2. Resiliance
3. Performance
4. Manageability
5. Conectivity

Security must be designed in to all levels.  It can't be addressed as a separate item

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Types of Attacks, I think its important to deliniate intentional (malicious) and unintentional (defects) vulnerabilities.

Physical security gets my vote for Number one issue in security.

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Stuxnet - I thought they blamed it on a (Iranian) USB Thumb Drive?

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I think TMI was 70's? That was human error? I keep thinking about an old movie "Failsafe", people were taken out of the control loop and look what happened.

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How can we be sure that the software of industrial systems are not packed with malware that can be sometime used against you (either by hackers, competitors etc).

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well said jeffrey. LTS is a big challenge.

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Does anyone remember "how many different things had to go wrong at the same time" to cause the Three Mile Island issue back in the 1980's? (or was it the 1970's ;-)

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1. Performance

2. Security

3. Conectivity

4. Manageability

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Manageability or lifecycle support (security updates, patches)

Connectivity and performance

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security in Real Time Systems is very important

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manageability, performance

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I would go for security and performance

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Connectivity is most important for us- in 2 situations - within our systems connecting embendded sub-systems, and then connectivity of our systems to other systems over the cloud.

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Hmmm.... no audio today, even when it appears to be playing.  Guess I"ll have to catch the archive.

 

Rookie

1. Performance

2. Security

3. Manageability

4. Connectivity

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security is most important, then manageability and performance after that.

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Connectivity and Performance

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manageability, perfomance.

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I vote for "Performance".

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What about the fifth pilar?  FUNCTIONALITY?

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Echelon's LONWORKS, LONTALK with many interconnecting schemes.

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With ethernet above that between controllers

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I2C, SPI, RS485, TCP/IP, and proprietary protocols

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Experimenting with LIN for for short distance low cost networked automation (low cost solution resistant to external noise)

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Communication Standards: MQTT, DDS

Software Standards: OSGi

Management Standards: OMA-DM,

I2C for within each node.  Ethernet (wired and wireless) between machines.

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Should be more explicit use I2C at sensor level -- then use UDP and TCP/IP at network level to uplload consolidated data to database on Linux.

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Zigbee, I2C, RS485, WiFi, ClimateTalk

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CAN/LIN/I2C/FlexRay

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GSM/CDMA, Modbus, proprietary protocols

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I use CAN in Automotive.

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Use mainly I2C and SPI

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CAN open is currently used. older products used proprietary and unique communication systems

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candus, modbus tcp + rtu, dh , profibus

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Currently using FlexRay.  Also 802.11 wireless.  TCP/IP for external communications. 

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Currently using Zigbee

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Working in CAN & I2C. looking forward for LIN.

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Instead of these many protocols being used (LIN,CAN,I2C), why can't there be a single universal protocol which can adapt almost any application's requirement? This would enable developers from one company migrate to the other without too much of protocol updation right.

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you can use Zigbee

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Here again ... educator, researcher, consultant

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Whats about Virtual Instrumentation ?

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All right, numbered slides, and the T-shirt

page. Keep up the good work. Student,

retired electronics Trans Alaskan Pipeline.

Rookie

Thanks for the Wind River IDP 1.0 graphic on slide 5!

Integration Consultant, Technology Advocate for Embedded System

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I'm a "Computer Systems Engineer" (H/W & S/W)

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Intelligent Device Software (aka M2M or IoT but at the device (embedded compuiting platform) level)

Electronic Design Enginner, studied Embedded System Development

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electrical , interest in smart coloboration platforms

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natural gas metering instrumentation

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Hardware/Firmware engineer - autonomous, self-healing, systems of systems.

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I'm working on device driver development & Ucos based academic projects.

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Design - vibratory stress relief

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Radiation/Reliability Engineer

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electronics engineering

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Nice WW-II story... thank goodness the missles from Gaza to Isreal seem to be the same technology!

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embedded systems, university

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R&D Hardware & Software Engineering.

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hardware, firmware and testing

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Sriram. Embedded Developer.

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hardware/software engr here

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embedded systems software

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can you please increase your voice

 

Rookie

Hardware / software developer

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good morning from edmonton, alberta

 

Rookie

Software, Intelligent Systems

Steampipe noise for an industrial talk, very appropriate.

 

The player will apear exactly at Noon EST, above the lecturer photo

 

Rookie

Media player comes on when it goes live.

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I don't see the media player - what's up?

 

Rookie

Good Morning from Milwaukee!

 

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Hello All.  Soithern California is warm and sunny today.

 

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Good morning from St. Louis Missouri

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HI GOOD MORNING FROM CHIHUAHUA MEXICO

 

Good morning from New Jersey

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good morning from chilly Edmonton, Alberta

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Good Morning from CA

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Good morning from Bangalore

 

Rookie

It is a chilly morning here in POrtland, Oregon at 30F but wonderful clear blue skies.

 

Blogger

The slide deck looks like the right one.

Blogger

Hello again from Rockwell Automation in Mayfield Hts Ohio where it's a warm 34F and cloudy.

Rookie

Good morning from Scottsdale, AZ

It's currently 59°F with a High of 80°F.

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Good morning from Scottsdale

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Did the part II started already?

Rookie

Today's slide deck appears to hold tomorrows slides - Part 2: Four pillars of intelligent industrial apps

 

Is this correct?

Rookie

Good morning from San Jose, CA

It's 49°F and a High of 63°F.

Rookie


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