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No experience developing for 3, expecting to use 4 next year.

Author

No experience with 802.15 yet. About to get hands-on in the New Year...

Author

Iam participating in SMART METER design wBluetooth connectivity nowdays which we think it will be of use in areas with little infrastructure support,so data can be gathered manually by a Bluetooth reader around the residental block users.Any suggestion about the subject or sugestions for further readings ,sources? 

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although iam late,but i downloaded the lecture slide deck& the lecture is realy nice.

Many thanks to Fanny &Alex

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Thanks Fanny & Alex

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Really appreciate this series of lectures!

What is best protocol for system with low power (battery powered devices), low cost, easy to implement, short range (approx 1/2 mile radius), data only (no voice needed), small data transmissions (approx 1-2 kbyte),

I'm a retired electro-mechanical designer.  A novice in electronics and programming.  Working independently on a commercial product.

Best,

Mike

Rookie

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Embedded Engineering using BT 3.0 (maybe 4.0) and Zigbee for connecting to medical sensors.

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Thank you for your lecture Fanny!

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WLAN support dual bands (2.4 and 5 GHz). New WLAN standard will support Tri-bands. Bluetooth and cellular wireless (3G/4G) are part of the platform. 

How the design and system engineers solves integration challenges and squeeze them into such a small single device?

Time synchronization and antenna to support all these wirelesses?

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thank you for the answer Fanny!

 

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audio is composed of short packets (about 100-200 usec) separated by long gaps (about 20 ms) depending on the CODEC

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Thanks Fanny and Alex. Good presentation!

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yes - BT 4.0 is optimized for audio

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Does BT 4.0 still support audio?  You mention in your slide that it is good for small bursty communications which audio is not.

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Thank you Fanny and Alex for presentation and discussion

Author

fascinating discussion!, Thank you Fanny for your time !!

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Excellent presentation, Fanny! Thanks very much!

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in the near field, with any radio technology, we need to worry about over-driving the receiver.  Typically, 1 food gives you sufficient distance as far as over-driving goes.  Near field coupling is OK for communications.

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Latencies for BT would depend on the software stack implementation and internal system properties.  The radio latencies are under a microsecond.

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some printed antennas (e.g. whip) require a gound plane, other constructions (e.g.) BIFA and PIFA have their own unique shape requirements.  Gorund planes are always important for printed antennas.

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Is there a problem using BT in its near field?  Is there a minimum distance?

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What kind of latency is there with bluetooth? Say, I need to transmit that a button was pressed...

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I am not aware of BT applications opperating over 100 meters, but there may be factory networks that require synchronous operation that BT delivers and where BT nodes have sufficient power.  I believe there may be some apps like that in the future.

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Antenna should be at least a quarter wavelength of the frequency. The wavelength of 13 MHz is about 30 meters.  Antennas shorter than that will result in signal power loss.  NFC antennas are typically printed on a PCB in a spiral fashion.  The range of NFC is very short, so lower than 1/4 wave is ok for NFC.

Author

But are there applications that use BT over 100 meters?

 

Author

More on printed antennas ... I thought that these relied on a groundplane on one side.  Wrong?   If so, would the far side of hte groundplane be a safe place for metal (such as battery)?

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With BT 4.0 optimized for small data bursts, do you see BT moving away from streaming apps like audio (like the A2DP profile)? 

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the range of BT 4.0 can be over 100 meters.  See the table on slide 5 of today's presentation.

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For the NFC application, can a small-sized antenna be used (despite the low carrier frequency) as the transmission depends on near field?

What is the expected design range for bluetooth?? How many feet to loss of signal??? I know it will vary by use, but what is the design goal??

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for printed antennas, it may be obvious, but avoid metal surfaces inside and metal enclosure.  batteries, ground planes, power supplies can all seriously impact the printed (or any internal antenna) performance.  We will touch on this in the next session.

Author

Fanny, from your experience, can you comment on woes of printed antennas?  What should I be wary of in using one?  thx.  jb

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thanks  fanny and alex

 

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As far as pairing, BT 4.0 has more sophisticated profiles, so this helps the pairing function.

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For ZigBee there may bre multiple coordinators that can take over if one dies.  for BT, any device can become a master.

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Android will support BLE, likely soon since this whehere the BT market is going.

Author

How does the 3.0 / 4.0 technology differ as far as pairing if any??

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in zigbee, if the coordinator dies, does it mean the whole network stops functioning?

same question for bluetooth master.

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Question: Any idea when Android will support BLE for apps?

Author

there is a lot of progress in simplifying the profile structure in BT 4.0

Author

Thanks Fanny for your lecture. I have two questions: 1. will wifi and BT interfere with each other as they both operate in the 2.4GHz frequency band? 2. How long does it take for BT to establish connection

 

Author

Yes, Thank You Fanny and Alex!

Author

Wi-Fi could compete with Bluetooth - technically it has all the fundamental capabilities as BT, but there are currently no really low power Wi-Fi implementations on the market.

Author

Interesting presentation

Author

OK - no FEC. Error detection and retry?

 

Author

BT started with devices that supported their Profiles.The issue with Devices and accessories are the compatibility of the Profiles and their different Versions. Is there any improvements in simplifying the Profile structure in BT SIG ?

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Thanks. NFC may be a better choice for my application from what you have described

.

Author

Thanks very much, excellent presentation

Author

Thank you Fanny, great lecture

 

Author

what is the typical communication delay in Bluetooth v3 and v4?

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BTLE does have forward error correction.

Author

BT is relatively low loss, given that it's in the 2.4 GHz band (lower than the 5 GHz band).  It is however, also low power transmission, so the range is shorter than Wi-Fi.

Author

Great lecture.  Thanks!

Author

Is there any kind of suggestion that bluetooth can be absorved by some actual or really soon variant of WIFI?


Best Regards till tomorrow

Thank you Fanny and Alex, lots of great overview/comparison information.

 

Author

Question: does the Bluetooth protocol have Forward Error Correction? Is there a packet retry capability for detected errors?

Author

Please send us the archive location again .. Thanks

Author

Is the carrier frequency in NFC 13.5 MHz?, what will be the size of the antenna if so?

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Is BT a lossy or lossless transmission?

Author

Thank you Fanny, another great presentation

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Thank You Fanny and Alex.

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I've seen NFC device tags in thick stickers.

 

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Is BT a lossy or lossless transmission?

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How big of a chip or chipset is currently being used for NFC ??? Are they able use the NFC on a smart card ?

Author

In very noisy EM environments, does Zigbee  or Bluetooth hold up better  for short range applications?

Why has Zigbee not been as popular as Bluetooth?

Author

NFC can be used with BT for communication as seen in the Galaxy Phones where pictures are shared between smartphones with Tap and send ?

Authentication using NFC and Media Transfer using BT.

Author

What is the most commonly followed bluetooth standard??

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do different markets follow different bluetooth standards ??

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For consumer audio stuff, GATT includes basic play controls like VOL UP, VOL DN, Next track, Prev track, etc.

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when was zigbee introduced?

 

Author

How does the 3.0 / 4.0 technology differ as far as pairing if any??

Author

I am in business development ... focused primarily on TV White Space at the moment

Does TVWS borrow design principles from BlueTooth? (e.g., low power, continued sync while "asleep", etc.)

 

Author

Renesas has a new very low cost BLE solution (BLE only).

Author

For applications that only need low data rates, can you say a few words about Bluetooth vs. Zigbee?

Author

Q: Have you seen any video over bluetooth applications?  We tried to make one once and the protocol overhead was just too much.

 

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Looking at using Bluetooth at some point in the future.

Author

Is BT 4.0 silicon out already?

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Planning to work BT 4.0, BT 3.0

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Haven't worked on either, plan on playing with either soon

Author

Q: What is the max real world throughput for streaming data for BT 3.0+HS and 4.0?

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We will be going to v4.0, if we haven't already ... not sure on status.

 

Author

Have not work on any BT3 or BT4.

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Q: What is recommended for BT vendors / references / development kits?

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Using BT V 4.0 already

did not use BT 3.0 at all

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I have not used blue tooth and am unlikely to in the next 12 months, perhaps in 24

Author

Not used BT 3.0.  Plan to use.

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I am considering to move to v4.0

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No plans for blue tooth at  this time

Author

Hi Alex, just wanted to let you know I am out here an engaged - just had a flurry of folks in my office at the beginning of the presentation.  Thanks

 

Author

No bluetooth use or plans to use

Author

wHAT HAPPEND INTO THE BLUETOOTH IN IPAD (APPLE) AND EQUIPMENTS SAMSUNG (ANDROID). ? THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION.

Author

cost vs. development tradeoff there

Author

Not hard at all if you pay the price for a module.

 

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bluetooth mostly audio

 

Author

Q: Is Bluetooth integration hard? I've gotten requests to incorporate Bluetooth into some devices recently, is it hard?

Author

We use a CSR (Cambridge Silicon Radio) module - self contained intelligence along with the radios. I think it is sub $10.

 

Author

Cost is only about $2-$3 in volume.

Author

what is the part# for TI bluetooth

 

Author

Any idea when BLE will be supported on Android???

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Is BT a lossy or lossless transmission?

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The timing is horrendous for a scatternet.  We never got it working.

Author

Q: antennas ... especially those printed ones.   Any big drawbacks for those in LE BT?

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interested in possibility of multimaster/slave particularly for HID

Author

Hi from South Africa.

I'm a Robotics specialist, with majors in Control & Instrumentation Engineering and DSP (focussed on DIP).

Q: With the ranges of frequencies, is the modification of antenna length a major issue? How precise do you need to be? Does this determine the band widths?

Author

I have used ZigBee protocol for wireless sensor network

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project engineer active in smart sensor networks for industrial applications

 

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You can talk for mile with 4W of power

 

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Are the algorithms specified in the standard or they are propetary?

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Very different than the low power Bluetooth standard.

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Wow! Look at those power numbers on V3.0+HS! 1W! 4W!

 

Author

my original exposure to bluetooth was v1.2. It didn't talke with most things.

Author

I also recall bluetooth not connecting issues

 

Author

Embedded Systems Specialist--software/firmware primarily.

3.5 years at a BT silicon vendor.  Consulting since.

Author

I work with BT LE v 4.0 currently 

Also am a BT SIG member

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Designing in BT+HS. Need to decide  on 3.0 or 4.0

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Electronic/Electrical Engineer.

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familiar with the BT standard

Patent practitioner from Illinois.

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Discipline: Embedded Systems design; No direct experience implementing BT

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Electrical Engineer, very little bluetooth experience

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I'm using BLE on a consumer product being developed.

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wireless sensor network & RF Device modeling

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I'm with NuVo Technologies. We are using Bluetooth in a home multi-room audio amplifier product. Our application is to play from Smartphones and Notebook PCs in the same room of your home.

Author

looking at various wireless technologies so I appreciate the overview for comparison

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EE, scientific equipment, Test and measurement.

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BT SIG member (vs. IEEE 802.15.x), currently 2.0 & 3: next gen product will have BT 4.0 (likely no use for LE, due to too low throughput/not suitable for voice/QoS)

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Analog/RF Design Engineer

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I've used bluetooth 2 for streaming data (RFCOMM) in biomedical research using TI Stellaris modules

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No use for standards at this time 

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embedded systems using bt HID and A2DP

Author

Hardware integration for robotics

Author

Here again we go :)


Mostly hardware with some software (in the firmware side)

Not yet used bluetooth.

embedded software and hardware

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Yes, using 802.15 right now.  Lots of experience with 802.11.  Some experience with 802.15

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Embedded SW/HW Engineer

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No familiarity - This is all new for me.

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Electrical Design Engineer - Aviation

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RTL design of Modem FPGA

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DoD R&D focusing on airborne networks. Fairly familiar with 802.15

 

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technical translation for Rohde & Schwarz

 

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Mostly software, some hardware too.

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Telecommunications engineer

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Hello from NJ.  Hardware/Systems engineer in Space/Aerospace engineering

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patent attorney with systems engineering at motorola experience

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HW R&D medical devices

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Signing off - no audio again.

Mixed signal IC design and verification, usually.

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Embedded software, former Bluetooth baseband developer

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Embedded Product Design

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mostly hardware, somesoftware, EE

 

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Military Systems - System Test

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Tektronix applications engineer

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is audio working?

 

Author

Not raining, just foggy in the Willamette Valley

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So soeey I didn't log in early, and study the power points I just skimmed.

 

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Here we go! audio is up!

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I am sure it is raining in Oregon :->

 

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And good evening from Munich.

 

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How is the weather in Oregon?  I just moved to Virginina from Oregon.

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mornign from sydney

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Hello and good morning from Oregon

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Good morning all from CA

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Vocera uses Bluetooth in conjunction with VoWLAN, so have an "interesting" situation re. the typically shared/switched aspect of BT RF within a chipset/radio module. LE is interesting (given battery life concerns), but likely more suitable for sensor vs. voice/QoS. DoD frowns on BT 3.0, and interested in the forward/backwards RF compatabilityaspects of BT 4.0 vs. earlier: channelization changing, more Wi-Fi co-ex "friendly"

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Howdy from sunny North Texas!

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Morning, Fanny.   JB from Dendritics in Boston here.   Bluetooth, especially low-energy bluetooth is my main interest, so this one is "for me".  Thanks for it all.  Cheers!

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Thanks - West Union, SC

 

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No audio player visable until 12:00 PM

 

Author

Hello - Good Morning.. Is the Audio player visible yet ??

 

Author

Good morning from central New York 29, light snow

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Good morning from Edmonton, AB

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Do I need a pass word to join in?

Author

Good Morning from FROSTY San Jose, CA.

It's CLEAR and 33°F and a HIGH of 61°F.

Author

Good morning from Scottsdale

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Good Morning from Tennessee.

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Good morning from Toronto.

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Am I the first? Good morning from GA.

Author


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