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Iam participating in SMART METER design wBluetooth connectivity nowdays which we think it will be of use in areas with little infrastructure support,so data can be gathered manually by a Bluetooth reader around the residental block users.Any suggestion about the subject or sugestions for further readings ,sources? 

Rookie

although iam late,but i downloaded the lecture slide deck& the lecture is realy nice.

Many thanks to Fanny &Alex

Rookie

Thanks Fanny & Alex

Rookie

Really appreciate this series of lectures!

What is best protocol for system with low power (battery powered devices), low cost, easy to implement, short range (approx 1/2 mile radius), data only (no voice needed), small data transmissions (approx 1-2 kbyte),

I'm a retired electro-mechanical designer.  A novice in electronics and programming.  Working independently on a commercial product.

Best,

Mike

Rookie

Rookie

Embedded Engineering using BT 3.0 (maybe 4.0) and Zigbee for connecting to medical sensors.

Rookie

Thank you for your lecture Fanny!

Rookie

WLAN support dual bands (2.4 and 5 GHz). New WLAN standard will support Tri-bands. Bluetooth and cellular wireless (3G/4G) are part of the platform. 

How the design and system engineers solves integration challenges and squeeze them into such a small single device?

Time synchronization and antenna to support all these wirelesses?

Rookie

thank you for the answer Fanny!

 

Rookie

audio is composed of short packets (about 100-200 usec) separated by long gaps (about 20 ms) depending on the CODEC

Blogger

Thanks Fanny and Alex. Good presentation!

Rookie

yes - BT 4.0 is optimized for audio

Blogger

Does BT 4.0 still support audio?  You mention in your slide that it is good for small bursty communications which audio is not.

Rookie

Thank you Fanny and Alex for presentation and discussion

Rookie

fascinating discussion!, Thank you Fanny for your time !!

Rookie

Excellent presentation, Fanny! Thanks very much!

Rookie

in the near field, with any radio technology, we need to worry about over-driving the receiver.  Typically, 1 food gives you sufficient distance as far as over-driving goes.  Near field coupling is OK for communications.

Blogger

Latencies for BT would depend on the software stack implementation and internal system properties.  The radio latencies are under a microsecond.

Blogger

some printed antennas (e.g. whip) require a gound plane, other constructions (e.g.) BIFA and PIFA have their own unique shape requirements.  Gorund planes are always important for printed antennas.

Blogger

Is there a problem using BT in its near field?  Is there a minimum distance?

Rookie

What kind of latency is there with bluetooth? Say, I need to transmit that a button was pressed...

Rookie

I am not aware of BT applications opperating over 100 meters, but there may be factory networks that require synchronous operation that BT delivers and where BT nodes have sufficient power.  I believe there may be some apps like that in the future.

Blogger

Antenna should be at least a quarter wavelength of the frequency. The wavelength of 13 MHz is about 30 meters.  Antennas shorter than that will result in signal power loss.  NFC antennas are typically printed on a PCB in a spiral fashion.  The range of NFC is very short, so lower than 1/4 wave is ok for NFC.

Blogger

But are there applications that use BT over 100 meters?

 

Rookie

More on printed antennas ... I thought that these relied on a groundplane on one side.  Wrong?   If so, would the far side of hte groundplane be a safe place for metal (such as battery)?

Rookie

With BT 4.0 optimized for small data bursts, do you see BT moving away from streaming apps like audio (like the A2DP profile)? 

Rookie

the range of BT 4.0 can be over 100 meters.  See the table on slide 5 of today's presentation.

Blogger

For the NFC application, can a small-sized antenna be used (despite the low carrier frequency) as the transmission depends on near field?

What is the expected design range for bluetooth?? How many feet to loss of signal??? I know it will vary by use, but what is the design goal??

Rookie

for printed antennas, it may be obvious, but avoid metal surfaces inside and metal enclosure.  batteries, ground planes, power supplies can all seriously impact the printed (or any internal antenna) performance.  We will touch on this in the next session.

Blogger

Fanny, from your experience, can you comment on woes of printed antennas?  What should I be wary of in using one?  thx.  jb

Rookie

thanks  fanny and alex

 

Rookie

As far as pairing, BT 4.0 has more sophisticated profiles, so this helps the pairing function.

Blogger

For ZigBee there may bre multiple coordinators that can take over if one dies.  for BT, any device can become a master.

Blogger

Android will support BLE, likely soon since this whehere the BT market is going.

Blogger

How does the 3.0 / 4.0 technology differ as far as pairing if any??

Rookie

in zigbee, if the coordinator dies, does it mean the whole network stops functioning?

same question for bluetooth master.

Rookie

Question: Any idea when Android will support BLE for apps?

Rookie

there is a lot of progress in simplifying the profile structure in BT 4.0

Blogger

Thanks Fanny for your lecture. I have two questions: 1. will wifi and BT interfere with each other as they both operate in the 2.4GHz frequency band? 2. How long does it take for BT to establish connection

 

Rookie

Yes, Thank You Fanny and Alex!

Rookie

Wi-Fi could compete with Bluetooth - technically it has all the fundamental capabilities as BT, but there are currently no really low power Wi-Fi implementations on the market.

Blogger

Interesting presentation

Rookie

OK - no FEC. Error detection and retry?

 

Rookie

BT started with devices that supported their Profiles.The issue with Devices and accessories are the compatibility of the Profiles and their different Versions. Is there any improvements in simplifying the Profile structure in BT SIG ?

Rookie

Thanks. NFC may be a better choice for my application from what you have described

.

Rookie

Thanks very much, excellent presentation

Rookie

Thank you Fanny, great lecture

 

Rookie

what is the typical communication delay in Bluetooth v3 and v4?

Rookie

BTLE does have forward error correction.

Blogger

BT is relatively low loss, given that it's in the 2.4 GHz band (lower than the 5 GHz band).  It is however, also low power transmission, so the range is shorter than Wi-Fi.

Blogger

Great lecture.  Thanks!

Rookie

Is there any kind of suggestion that bluetooth can be absorved by some actual or really soon variant of WIFI?


Best Regards till tomorrow

Thank you Fanny and Alex, lots of great overview/comparison information.

 

Rookie

Question: does the Bluetooth protocol have Forward Error Correction? Is there a packet retry capability for detected errors?

Rookie

Please send us the archive location again .. Thanks

Rookie

Is the carrier frequency in NFC 13.5 MHz?, what will be the size of the antenna if so?

Rookie

Is BT a lossy or lossless transmission?

Rookie

Thank you Fanny, another great presentation

Rookie

Thank You Fanny and Alex.

Rookie

I've seen NFC device tags in thick stickers.

 

Rookie

Is BT a lossy or lossless transmission?

Rookie

How big of a chip or chipset is currently being used for NFC ??? Are they able use the NFC on a smart card ?

Rookie

In very noisy EM environments, does Zigbee  or Bluetooth hold up better  for short range applications?

Why has Zigbee not been as popular as Bluetooth?

Rookie

NFC can be used with BT for communication as seen in the Galaxy Phones where pictures are shared between smartphones with Tap and send ?

Authentication using NFC and Media Transfer using BT.

Rookie

What is the most commonly followed bluetooth standard??

Rookie

do different markets follow different bluetooth standards ??

Rookie

For consumer audio stuff, GATT includes basic play controls like VOL UP, VOL DN, Next track, Prev track, etc.

Rookie

when was zigbee introduced?

 

Rookie

How does the 3.0 / 4.0 technology differ as far as pairing if any??

Rookie

I am in business development ... focused primarily on TV White Space at the moment

Does TVWS borrow design principles from BlueTooth? (e.g., low power, continued sync while "asleep", etc.)

 

Rookie

Renesas has a new very low cost BLE solution (BLE only).

Rookie

For applications that only need low data rates, can you say a few words about Bluetooth vs. Zigbee?

Rookie

Q: Have you seen any video over bluetooth applications?  We tried to make one once and the protocol overhead was just too much.

 

Rookie

Looking at using Bluetooth at some point in the future.

Rookie

Is BT 4.0 silicon out already?

Rookie

Planning to work BT 4.0, BT 3.0

Rookie

Haven't worked on either, plan on playing with either soon

Rookie

Q: What is the max real world throughput for streaming data for BT 3.0+HS and 4.0?

Rookie

We will be going to v4.0, if we haven't already ... not sure on status.

 

Rookie

Have not work on any BT3 or BT4.

Rookie

Q: What is recommended for BT vendors / references / development kits?

Rookie

Using BT V 4.0 already

did not use BT 3.0 at all

Rookie

I have not used blue tooth and am unlikely to in the next 12 months, perhaps in 24

Rookie

Not used BT 3.0.  Plan to use.

Rookie

I am considering to move to v4.0

Rookie

No plans for blue tooth at  this time

Rookie

Hi Alex, just wanted to let you know I am out here an engaged - just had a flurry of folks in my office at the beginning of the presentation.  Thanks

 

Rookie

No bluetooth use or plans to use

Rookie

wHAT HAPPEND INTO THE BLUETOOTH IN IPAD (APPLE) AND EQUIPMENTS SAMSUNG (ANDROID). ? THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION.

Rookie

cost vs. development tradeoff there

Rookie

Not hard at all if you pay the price for a module.

 

Rookie

bluetooth mostly audio

 

Rookie

Q: Is Bluetooth integration hard? I've gotten requests to incorporate Bluetooth into some devices recently, is it hard?

Rookie

We use a CSR (Cambridge Silicon Radio) module - self contained intelligence along with the radios. I think it is sub $10.

 

Rookie

Cost is only about $2-$3 in volume.

Rookie

what is the part# for TI bluetooth

 

Rookie

Any idea when BLE will be supported on Android???

Rookie

Is BT a lossy or lossless transmission?

Rookie

The timing is horrendous for a scatternet.  We never got it working.

Rookie

Q: antennas ... especially those printed ones.   Any big drawbacks for those in LE BT?

Rookie

interested in possibility of multimaster/slave particularly for HID

Rookie

Hi from South Africa.

I'm a Robotics specialist, with majors in Control & Instrumentation Engineering and DSP (focussed on DIP).

Q: With the ranges of frequencies, is the modification of antenna length a major issue? How precise do you need to be? Does this determine the band widths?

Rookie

I have used ZigBee protocol for wireless sensor network

Rookie

project engineer active in smart sensor networks for industrial applications

 

Rookie

You can talk for mile with 4W of power

 

Rookie

Are the algorithms specified in the standard or they are propetary?

Rookie

Very different than the low power Bluetooth standard.

Rookie

Wow! Look at those power numbers on V3.0+HS! 1W! 4W!

 

Rookie

my original exposure to bluetooth was v1.2. It didn't talke with most things.

Rookie

I also recall bluetooth not connecting issues

 

Rookie

Embedded Systems Specialist--software/firmware primarily.

3.5 years at a BT silicon vendor.  Consulting since.

Rookie

I work with BT LE v 4.0 currently 

Also am a BT SIG member

Rookie

Designing in BT+HS. Need to decide  on 3.0 or 4.0

Rookie

Electronic/Electrical Engineer.

Rookie

familiar with the BT standard

Patent practitioner from Illinois.

Rookie

Discipline: Embedded Systems design; No direct experience implementing BT

Rookie

Electrical Engineer, very little bluetooth experience

Rookie

I'm using BLE on a consumer product being developed.

Rookie

wireless sensor network & RF Device modeling

Rookie

I'm with NuVo Technologies. We are using Bluetooth in a home multi-room audio amplifier product. Our application is to play from Smartphones and Notebook PCs in the same room of your home.

Rookie

looking at various wireless technologies so I appreciate the overview for comparison

Rookie

EE, scientific equipment, Test and measurement.

Rookie

BT SIG member (vs. IEEE 802.15.x), currently 2.0 & 3: next gen product will have BT 4.0 (likely no use for LE, due to too low throughput/not suitable for voice/QoS)

Rookie

Analog/RF Design Engineer

Rookie

I've used bluetooth 2 for streaming data (RFCOMM) in biomedical research using TI Stellaris modules

Rookie

No use for standards at this time 

Rookie

embedded systems using bt HID and A2DP

Rookie

Hardware integration for robotics

Rookie

Here again we go :)


Mostly hardware with some software (in the firmware side)

Not yet used bluetooth.

embedded software and hardware

Rookie

Yes, using 802.15 right now.  Lots of experience with 802.11.  Some experience with 802.15

Rookie

Embedded SW/HW Engineer

Rookie

No familiarity - This is all new for me.

Rookie

Electrical Design Engineer - Aviation

Rookie

RTL design of Modem FPGA

Rookie

DoD R&D focusing on airborne networks. Fairly familiar with 802.15

 

Rookie

technical translation for Rohde & Schwarz

 

Rookie

Mostly software, some hardware too.

Rookie

Telecommunications engineer

Rookie

Hello from NJ.  Hardware/Systems engineer in Space/Aerospace engineering

Rookie

patent attorney with systems engineering at motorola experience

Rookie

HW R&D medical devices

Rookie

Signing off - no audio again.

Mixed signal IC design and verification, usually.

Rookie

Embedded software, former Bluetooth baseband developer

Rookie

Embedded Product Design

Rookie

mostly hardware, somesoftware, EE

 

Rookie

Military Systems - System Test

Rookie

is audio working?

 

Rookie

Not raining, just foggy in the Willamette Valley

Rookie

So soeey I didn't log in early, and study the power points I just skimmed.

 

Rookie

Here we go! audio is up!

Rookie

I am sure it is raining in Oregon :->

 

Rookie

And good evening from Munich.

 

Rookie

How is the weather in Oregon?  I just moved to Virginina from Oregon.

Rookie

mornign from sydney

Rookie

Hello and good morning from Oregon

Rookie

Good morning all from CA

Rookie

Vocera uses Bluetooth in conjunction with VoWLAN, so have an "interesting" situation re. the typically shared/switched aspect of BT RF within a chipset/radio module. LE is interesting (given battery life concerns), but likely more suitable for sensor vs. voice/QoS. DoD frowns on BT 3.0, and interested in the forward/backwards RF compatabilityaspects of BT 4.0 vs. earlier: channelization changing, more Wi-Fi co-ex "friendly"

Rookie

Howdy from sunny North Texas!

Rookie

Morning, Fanny.   JB from Dendritics in Boston here.   Bluetooth, especially low-energy bluetooth is my main interest, so this one is "for me".  Thanks for it all.  Cheers!

Rookie

Thanks - West Union, SC

 

Rookie

No audio player visable until 12:00 PM

 

Rookie

Hello - Good Morning.. Is the Audio player visible yet ??

 

Rookie

Good morning from central New York 29, light snow

Rookie

Good morning from Edmonton, AB

Rookie

Do I need a pass word to join in?

Rookie

Good Morning from FROSTY San Jose, CA.

It's CLEAR and 33°F and a HIGH of 61°F.

Rookie

Good morning from Scottsdale

Rookie

Good Morning from Tennessee.

Rookie

Good morning from Toronto.

Rookie

Am I the first? Good morning from GA.



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