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resistion
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
resistion   5/4/2011 7:01:48 PM
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Well something's gotta give. If the fins are spaced too close, the thick gate would be squeezed in between, which would be a new complication.

markhahn0
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
markhahn0   5/4/2011 8:35:24 PM
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multigate is great, but IBM/AMD/TSMC are surely quite close to production as well. since everyone will have 3d/multigate in about the same timescale, including foundries producing ARM, it's hard to see how this gives Intel any significant advantage. after all, ARM has a _design_ advantage in performance-for-power, which Intel can't catch up with via a transient fab upgrade...

sxs537
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
sxs537   5/4/2011 9:12:01 PM
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Says Who?? IBM/GF/TSMC etc are just starting their 32/28nm and then they indicated that they would be ready with 3D transistors at 14 nm node. So they have to go through a 22/20 nm node in between before they get there. Intel has atleast a 3-4 year advantage if not more. Also ARM architecture is inherently more power efficient since it is designed that way (low power with commensurate performance hit). They are successful because they can do an SoC (the whole ecosystem) better than Intel currently does. So ARM should be very concerned by this.... not that they cannot compete but Intel now is in the same power envelope and has atleast a 2X power advantage on the core side. Whether Intel can execute to the whole SoC part is the question. They did acquire pieces (like comms with Infinieon and graphics) in the last year or so. The space is now really interesting.

sxs537
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
sxs537   5/4/2011 9:13:20 PM
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I meant "2X performance advantage on the core side"....sorry for the typo

PHW_#1
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
PHW_#1   5/5/2011 6:24:20 AM
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TSMC not IBM/GF (even more behind) can only achieve Intel's 45nm high k/metal gate specs. Not to mention intel's 2nd generation high k/metal gate spec. So we are talking 2 generation gap. 3D FINFET is a brandnew design flow, I am wondering whether design community is ready to handle such technology.

old account Frank Eory
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
old account Frank Eory   5/6/2011 3:27:50 PM
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sxs537, I have to agree with you on the SoC ecosystem point. This truly has been ARM's advantage, more so than power efficiency. They have made it as painless as possible to build the chip -- assemble the cores and other IP -- and then to build a system (software, etc.) around the chip. But with 22 nm being production-ready by the end of this year, Intel indeed has pushed their huge manufacturing advantage even further ahead of the pack. They really should pursue foundry business more seriously. I think every SoC design team in the world would salivate at the idea of building their chip in an Intel fab.

rfab
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
rfab   5/5/2011 3:12:07 AM
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TSMC Chairman Morris Chang said at the meeting in the first quarter of France, said TSMC 28 nanometer low-power (LP) process and high performance (HP) process reliability verification operations have been completed, which means that the company's 28 Chennai M the mass production process is no longer any obstacles the road, in the TSMC advanced process of development, is a very important milestone. -------- originally clamored for so many years of 28NM, production does not

PHW_#1
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
PHW_#1   5/5/2011 6:20:05 AM
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another great innovation.

mogulman52
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
mogulman52   5/5/2011 3:21:48 PM
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Intel's real threat is Microsoft's decision to offer Windows 8 on an Arm platform. They can respond to this in 3 ways: 1. Advance the x86 product such that Arm is an unattractive platform for Windows. 2. License Arm. 3. 1 & 2 Clearly #1 is the more profitable option. #2 is a good backup plan after making #1 a success. The tri-gate technology is a discontinuity in technology, design tools and design expertise. Intel will have a jump of several years just due to design tools and design expertise alone. They may have to concede some of the low-end mobile market but they are going to fight for the high-end performance market.

jaybus0
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
jaybus0   5/7/2011 12:47:29 PM
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If it were just Windows, then Intel wouldn't worry. The icing on the cake, for ARM, is that Visual Studio supports ARM cross-development on x86. Ironically, Intel's own high performance x86 processors are more than capable of real-time ARM emulation. Practically every ap for x86 Windows can very easily be ported to ARM Windows. Microsoft is leveling the playing field, which is a very smart move on MS part, but really puts the pressure on Intel. But Windows 8, in my opinion, will be much more taxing on the hardware than Android or iOS. Windows 8 may be much less responsive on ARM than on a 22 nm Sandy Bridge-like multi-core Atom.

soidude
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
soidude   5/6/2011 2:08:26 PM
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Trigate was invented in 1995: "Quantum-wire effects in thin and narrow SOI MOSFETs", X. Baie, IEEE International SOI Conference, pp. 66-67, 1995 and "A silicon-on-insulator quantum wire", X. Baie, Solid-State Electronics, Vol. 39, pp. 49-51, 1996

soidude
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
soidude   5/6/2011 3:01:14 PM
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There exists a book on multigate (trigate) transistors: "FinFETs and Other Multi-Gate Transistors", J.P. Colinge (Ed.), Springer, 350 pages, November 2007 (ISBN: 978-0-387-71751-7) http://www.springer.com/engineering/circuits+%26+systems/book/978-0-387-71751-7

Procs
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
Procs   5/6/2011 10:24:18 PM
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soidud, yes, finfet has been there for 10+ years. The industry credits Profs. Chenming Hu (Cal) as the expert on this structure. There is, however, many challenges to make this work in real life (hundres millions transistor). For example, The gates on each side of the fin to match. consistant height of the Fin (extremely difficult), Width of the Fin, integration schemes (the fin tends to collapse and causing shorts). TSMC hired Hu as CTO and planned to introduce Finfet in 65nm, but after few years without progress, they eventually gave up, and Hu went back to teaching. What Intel achieved will be at least 2-3 ahead of the packs. Semiconductor process is not Magic, it's a lot of research, and learn from errors to get the result. When intel annound 1270 release, they'll have at least ran 10K+ wafers to learn the technology. With IBM/GF/Samsung/TSMC/UMC combined, their wafer with Finfet on it will be less than 200 pcs ... and that where the gap is

mark.lapedus
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
mark.lapedus   5/7/2011 2:54:01 PM
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Based on Intel's tri-gate announcement, I fear this is the end for AMD. How can they catch up? AMD's 32-nm processor is barely shipping. They have no CEO. The question is who will buy them? Right now, I believe AMD is on the block. Samsung might buy them. Or they could soon become Abu Micro Devices. I say the later. Thoughts?

rfab
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
rfab   5/8/2011 10:00:58 AM
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i don"t think Samsung might buy AMD,Samsung has never been successfully integrated record, as evidenced by the previous AST

rfab
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
rfab   5/8/2011 10:03:46 AM
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Samsung might buy SOME ARM SOC COMPANY.Such as Marvell

rfab
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re: Intel tips 22-nm tri-gate, but mobile is MIA
rfab   5/8/2011 10:05:17 AM
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AMD FANW public opinion: we AMD that someone (IBM) as long as it touch of fingers, Intel will finish off



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