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Tsheen
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re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
Tsheen   11/4/2012 5:40:24 PM
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This type of news is good to see for US manufacturing. I'm sure there are numerous examples of losing jobs, but I think it would be healthy for our politicians to look at the positive examples and try to build from them. Thanks for the nice review. Regards, Tom from http://bestcarcoverage.com/

kitapbigi
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re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
kitapbigi   10/19/2012 4:24:07 PM
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Agree! Were have these guys been the last 2, 5, 30 years. The world is a lot more than black and white. Sweden, that great example of evil socialism has had higher growth in productivity and lower unemployment than the US. Violent crime is much lower lower and people are, arguably, much happier. Anyone her herd of Germany (yes, the place that builds cars and washing machines and often has higher net exports than China? For those here who do not know, it, just like Sweden, is in Europe where workers are pid much more than in the US and were most get at least 30 days vacation per year. Be willing to leave you baggage behind and do a bit of research. There are a lot more social and manufacturing models than the US and China - and some of them actually work for their citizens. [url=http://www.muslumanlik.com]islami rüya tabirleri[/url]

DMcCunney
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CEO
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
DMcCunney   9/21/2012 12:14:23 AM
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@Ber22306: "And Germany has had to deal with the remnants of the socialist culture among the ex-East Germans, ever since reunification." Yep. There were Germans who were *not* enthusiastic about the reunification, because they weren't happy with the sudden infusion of dirt poor proles who had been kept dirt poor by their Soviet rulers, and would need massive assistance from the rest of Germany to bring them to current standards, as well as being sources of low cost competition to well-paid West German workers. A German contact elsewhere informs me many of those strains still exist, and are part of the underpinning of the issues Germany is facing.

DMcCunney
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CEO
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
DMcCunney   9/21/2012 12:08:53 AM
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@Bert22306: "There's no reason at all to believe that the same basic economic models don't apply all over the world." They do. One current read is Robert Heilbroner's "The Making of Economic Society", and his analysis of the development of economies from those governed by tradition through "command" economies, into a "market" economy. China is a good example, where a tradition bound society had to move from rural and agrarian to an industrial society. That required accumulation of capital, and the investment of capital into creating the capital goods that would be the basis of industry. Peasants would have to be moved from the farms to the cities to become an industrial workforce, but part of the produce of the farms would have to go to the cities to feed the new industrial workers. How do you make that happen, especially when the process was likely to result in a *decrease* of the standard of living of those involved? The benefits would not be experienced by those who had to sacrifice. The Soviet Union had previously gone through that after the Communist Revolution, and Lenin's attempts at an economic plan were dismal failures because they assumed willing cooperation by the people affected. When Stalin came to power, he didn't *try* for willing cooperation. You did as ordered or you were shot. China's development proceeded along analogous routes. What we are seeing now in China is a transition from command to market economy, and an attempt to shift more towards consumer products than capital goods with a rise in thes tandard of living overall. I strongly suspect the same general model will be true everywhere, differing in detail because of differences in the underlying society and culture. Heilbroner wrote in the 1950's, and the book was published in 1960. He wasn't willing to predict where the economies of the Soviet Union and China would end up. It's no real surprise that both are becoming market economies.

Bert22306
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CEO
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
Bert22306   9/20/2012 8:03:31 PM
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In fact, Sweden has not been stuck in its 1960s style socialism either. It too has had to move away from that, since the early 1990s. And Germany has had to deal with the remnants of the socialist culture among the ex-East Germans, ever since reunification. Things are not quite as different between the US and these other countries you mention, except possibly as a matter of degree. Never mind the Eurozone countries that had traditionally had more socialist-tending policies than Germany. They too are struggling now. And too, as DMcCunney points out, having a more homogeneous culture, where the vast majority share the same values and outlook, makes a big difference too. Remember back in the 1990s, when everyone was gushing about how wonderful manufacturing in Japan was, because they followed the Deming model? Even that started falling apart, though, when their economy tanked. There's no reason at all to believe that the same basic economic models don't apply all over the world. Even if the prevailing conditions in each culture create different starting points.

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
DMcCunney   9/20/2012 7:30:43 PM
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@Manfredv: It's a little more complicated than you make it out to be. Sweden has the advantage of a homogenous culture and general agreement on The Way Things Should Be Done. A couple of decades ago, I had a cuople of Swedish women living in my building, over here for a long term visit. One of them explained how things worked in Sweden" When she was hired by a company, once she passed the probationary period, she was in the union. Once she was in the union, she was untouchable. She had a job and would be paid, even if she worked poorly or not at all. Whan I asked "What's the incentive for anyone to actually work under those circumstances?" she said, "I work hard and do a good job because I am a good Swede, and that's what good Swedes *do!*" I invite you to consider how well Sweden's approach would work here, where we *don't* have a homogenous culture or general agreement on how things are done. And Germany is dealing with its own problems on that line. There's a German economist looking at the problems of structural unemployment, whole classes of workers whose jobs ahve been eliminated by aitomation or moved where they can be done cheaper, and concluding that many of those workers simply won't *get* new jobs and exploring what might be done in consequence. The issue with socialism or any other system intended to redistribute wealth is that you must *have* wealth to redistribute, and such systems tend to get in the way of *creating* wealth. It works fine if the underlying economy is healthy, but can fall down badly when it isn't. And since the economy is increasingly global, weakness in someone *elses* economy can hurt yours. That's pretty much what the Eurozone crisis is about. Lots of countries over there are finding out the hard way that they can't pay the bills involved in their social programs, because the programs impeded the growth and development that would provide the funding.

Manfredv
User Rank
Rookie
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
Manfredv   9/20/2012 5:48:36 PM
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Agree! Were have these guys been the last 2, 5, 30 years. The world is a lot more than black and white. Sweden, that great example of evil socialism has had higher growth in productivity and lower unemployment than the US. Violent crime is much lower lower and people are, arguably, much happier. Anyone her herd of Germany (yes, the place that builds cars and washing machines and often has higher net exports than China? For those here who do not know, it, just like Sweden, is in Europe where workers are pid much more than in the US and were most get at least 30 days vacation per year. Be willing to leave you baggage behind and do a bit of research. There are a lot more social and manufacturing models than the US and China - and some of them actually work for their citizens.

docdivakar
User Rank
Manager
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
docdivakar   7/1/2012 12:31:36 AM
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@jaybus: good point. If touch labor is reduced and eliminated, it is actually less costly to manufacture in the US than in China (when you add in the shipping costs). Of course, there are government programs and tax breaks that skew the model but this something that US has to address in a meaningful and sensible way. MP Divakar

me3
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re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
me3   6/30/2012 6:08:17 PM
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They actually tried for decades. For some odd reasons, the gardner tends to goof off and the doctor doen't like his pay. The second act was that they end up had to hire secret police to kick them both into doing their jobs. That second act you know. The first act was obscured by the Western media in case you got the wrong idea. But you arrived at it yesterday, independently!

me3
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Rookie
re: U.S., European manufacturers join forces to compete with China
me3   6/30/2012 5:51:02 PM
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We got deep thinkers among EE Times' readers. I am sooo proud to be in good company. This one just re-invented scientific communism sitting on his couch. That is really an impressive set of policies.

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