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bmccleanicinsights
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re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
bmccleanicinsights   8/7/2012 9:13:42 PM
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HI Mike, We have always looked at the ranking as a top supplier list, not as a marketshare ranking and realize that the sales are double counted. With many of our clients being vendors to the semiconductor industry (equipment, chemicals and gases, etc.), leaving out large IC manufacturers like the foundries would leave gaping holes in the list of top suppliers. We state up front that we include the foundries so that you can take them out if you want and we also identify which suppliers are fabless. When we construct "marketshare" rankings of semiconductor companies we do not include the foundries so as not to double count the sales. It should be noted that not all foundry sales should be excluded when attempting to create marketshare data. Although Samsung has foundry sales, most of its foundry sales are to Apple. Since Apple will not re-sell these devices, counting these foundry sales as Samsung sales does not introduce double-counting. Overall, the list is only provided as a guideline for who are the top semi producers whether they be IDMs, fabless companies, or foundries. You can always segment the market in a lot of other ways if you desire. Bill McClean, President, IC Insights

MikeSantarini
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Manager
re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
MikeSantarini   8/7/2012 8:47:03 PM
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Someone clarify something for me. Isn't it double counting to have the fab and the customers that produce chips via that fab on the same list? Shouldn't there be two lists?

WW Thinker
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re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
WW Thinker   8/7/2012 3:15:34 AM
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"Scale" is missing from the Japan-based SoC companies because they fail to capture market share outside of Japan. Their failure is certainly not due to the lack of tryings. Unless they can prune the non-productive operations, do not depend on the local CE-OEMs for the majority of the business (because many of them are failing), do not throw away good money on bad business and incompetent operation, Japanese SoC OEMs, they will keep falling down the chart every year.

skal_jp
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re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
skal_jp   8/5/2012 4:43:40 AM
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We cannot put the blame entirely on the quake. But it did worsen things. Although it might be strange Japanese company are driven by internal market. That is why they could resist so far to low price from Korea/China, and also the Yen being strong (no good for exportation). Due to the earthquake this market has been slow down. But the fact that they were relying mainly on this market is a strategic error, and they should have extend earlier. However, I noticed two things in the number displayed. First, although sales declines, the rank did not change that much. Which for me mean that other companies do not seize the chance or that the loss of Japanese company is evenly dispatched to top companies... Second points, this is only about sales, isn't it? What about the benefit? Having enormous sales have no meaning if you are losing money, no? PS: To WW Thinker. I apologize for being "stupid", but I think some words are not to be used on a business related site, unless you have very very solid argumentation. BTW did you ever work in Japan?

James7740
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re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
James7740   8/3/2012 11:02:04 PM
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Dyland, I think Japan's issue for manufacturing is "scale". Hard to fix Foundry guy, I model foundry on track to ship 500M-750M 28nm chips before intel ships 1st 22nm Atom. Assumptions: intel ships 22nm Atom Q2/2013, foundry 28nm LTE in iphone5

mcgrathdylan
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Blogger
re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
mcgrathdylan   8/3/2012 6:11:47 PM
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I don't believe the fall of Japan's chip makers has much if anything to do with the earthquake/tsunami. I think this was in motion before that horrible day. I won't go as far as to use the strong words of WW Thinker, but I think that Japanese firms in general failed to quickly adapt to globalization and major changes in electronics. But I don't believe at all that it's too late for them to adapt.

WW Thinker
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re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
WW Thinker   8/3/2012 5:25:49 PM
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Stupidity, ignorance, pride, ultimately, putting one's interest above those of the company/investors/working-level_employees

Foundryguy1
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Rookie
re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
Foundryguy1   8/3/2012 11:20:50 AM
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Looks like foundry model is not collapsing per intel senior fellow Mr. Bohr http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4371617/Intel-exec-says-fabless-model--collapsing- I think market does not appreciate intel missed SOC silicon technology trend. Intel does have Silicon leadership for a technology that targets CPU. However, SOCs need tight pitch metal design rules and a wide range of transistors for ALL the different IP blocks: transistors with (a) wide range of off state currents, (b) analog, (c) RF, (d) power transistors, (e) 1.8/2.5/3.3 V support and (f) low cost since most target consumer electronics. Intel when down a technology path 5 years ago when it was only focused on CPU. That technology path was FinFETs which is less desirable for SOCs. The net result is intel is only shipping 32nm SOC technology today while foundry is shipping 28nm. Foundry will ship about 150M 28nm ships in Q4/2012 and have the most advance Si technology and highest level of SOC integration for the windows 8 mobile (tablet) October launch. For a data point just look that the first Microsoft Surface product uses a foundry SOC vs an Intel chip.

yalanand
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Rookie
re: Foundries soar, Japanese IDMs slide in IC sales rankings
yalanand   8/3/2012 7:13:32 AM
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@Dylan, any particular reason for this dismal performance by Japanese companies ? Has it got anything to do with the earthquake/tsunami that caused widespread deestruction in Japan ?



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