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chipguy 1
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
chipguy 1   9/24/2012 7:59:24 PM
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My foundry contact has studied Intel's 22nm SOC FinFET manufacturing flow and claims that it is not cost effective (compared to foundry 28nm/32nm) to manufacture mobile chips hence even Intel over next 3 years will still make most of its Infineon mobile cell phone chipsets at TSMC. Chips such as the 2 main chips in Apple's iphone 5: MDM9615 and A6 have an average ASP of $20 compared to similar die size X86 that Intel sells for $100-200)

James7740
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
James7740   9/24/2012 11:13:39 PM
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Peter, I have seen others post this as well. Can you address why repeating the intel spin on "manufacturing show down" makes any sense when today most advanced atom SOC is on 32nm and will stay that way until end of 2013 ! while Qualcomm is shipping 50M units 28nm this year in just the iPhone 5 design alone and (2) I thought all you guys were writing about intel winning mobile market with 22nm finfet last year (2011) and intel has not demo anything close to A6 CPU or graphic power/performance (at mobIle power level) .... Even demoed something close to what is already shipping !

Peter Clarke
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
Peter Clarke   9/25/2012 10:00:23 AM
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@James I was not aware that Intel has a position on a "manufacturing show down" and therefore did not try to repeat it. My intention was to tell readers that papers will be presented at IEDM on many of the leading-edge process technologies that will be producing chips in the near future. And therefore San Francisco in early December would be a good place to find out more. The rigor of the IEDM review process means that these should be detailed, quantitative presentations albeit likely to be only on certain aspects of each of these processes. From my perusal of the program the 14-nm logic node is being discussed mainly by academic groups looking at aspects of doping and strain in individual transistors. To your second point. All what guys?

green_ee
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
green_ee   9/25/2012 3:55:03 PM
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22nm not cost-effective ? I suppose that depends upon the level of integration. While it's probably not a cost-savings to replace small individual 32nm devices with 22nm, there is a definite cost-savings thru higher integration at smaller process geometries to reduce PCB area, total BOM, and possibly power-savings as well.

Bruzzer
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
Bruzzer   9/25/2012 4:34:47 PM
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Intel cannot afford to implement beyond 20nm. SandyBridge Moble Mfg Cost $0.40 per sq mil dice area. US Government & Intel are concealing Corp. is looted by employees and stakeholders & Bankrupt in future terms. 5 Sources; 1) infiltration by cartel organized network crime; 2) banked cost constructing surplus barrier limiting competitors beyond 32 nm; 3rd, theft from stockholder’s administers cost of channel price fix tie; 4th, theft fm end customers charged price fix in invoice plus monopoly overcharges. Likely PC end buyers will see some recovery. 5th industrial theft processors dumped at price less than cost. 5 categories record $178,713,547,976 misrepresented & unreported cost burden on Intel. Where are present cost burdens? 1st, inventories Xeon Westmere EX, Aarondale, Sandy Bridge Desktop & Mobile. 3 Issues; first, surplus processors banked in channels on deferred revenue recognition; 2nd, completed systems stalled in channels showing now what is occurring inside Intel; 3rd, surplus banked goods; processors, systems, repurposed for apps that will compete against Intel future product placing burden on industry in total. Finally, one must ask why Intel is sustaining price on prior runs instead of flushing at cost to recover investment burden? For Intel to dump inventories means twin tower effect on supply chain. Processor margins eliminated AMD becomes system house to capture remaining downstream producer values. Same for other processor design producers impacted by surplus raining down. Collapse flattens Intel’s long time channel & contract manufacturers finally take over for certain. Final question was price hold a hidden condition in Docket 9341 consent agreement? It’s time for regulatory mechanisms in this country that are supposed to police monopolization, cartel and investment fraud, including at Intel, to do that job of be replaced with administrations that will do that job. Respectfully submitted, Mike Bruzzone

ANON1255185289979
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
ANON1255185289979   9/25/2012 6:03:26 PM
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Will there be any discussion of planned process metrology?

MClayton200
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
MClayton200   9/26/2012 2:40:52 AM
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@bruzzer is this some innovative marketing statement? Who is the client.

PHW_#1
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
PHW_#1   9/26/2012 8:13:31 AM
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I hope your foundry contact is an ex-intel guy and he knows what he is comparing to. Most likely he is comparing what their FINFET will be in the COST sense. I will never doubt Intel's manufacturing cost much or significantly lower than foundry offering. Intel's biggest expense might not be in wafer manufacturing, they also need to cover IP/EDA tool development/product design teams, in addition marketing cost..... You should consider Synopsys/Candence/ARM/Virage../TSMC/SPIL/ASE../Qualcomm/nVidia.... before you start calculating the selling price. Too bad Intel can't just open its technology/manufacturing capability for design houses. You might want to check the baseband/AP SOC chips Clover Trail are made at TSMC or not? How about even 32nm SOC Medfield chip in TSMC? Who cares about legacy chips at TSMC? Also x86 atom is in the range 20x2 =40 price range. Nobody is using server chip for mobile phone. The war is getting more excited finally.

Peter Clarke
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
Peter Clarke   9/26/2012 9:30:33 AM
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I don't see any planned discussion of process metrology. Probably something for one of the Semicon conferences?

rfab
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re: Process showdown set for IEDM conference
rfab   9/26/2012 10:52:34 AM
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Mike Bruzzone Should be mentally ill

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