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caspermalto
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outside US road trips
caspermalto   8/6/2014 1:23:25 PM
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It`s great to hear that Tesla decided to open six supercharger stations in California, now people can make interesting road trips without fearing their car can remain with no electricity. The most interesting question is when people will be able to make Honolulu sightseeing tours with their electric cars, do other governments consider installing such supercharger stations?

Fabio007
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
Fabio007   10/9/2012 8:07:40 AM
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Hi Frank, yes, "who owns the battery" is always the question. But the answer could be: "not the EV user". For schemes where the battery hardware is swapped out (like the scheme proposed by companies like Better Place), the EV user does NOT pay for (and therefore does not own) the battery - the user is not buying a piece of hardware or a fuel; the user is buying a service: a charged battery, which is really "distance travelled". Of course, if you have already paid for your EV battery, then you would probably not want to participate in this type of scheme (depending on the condition of your battery!) But for wet-chemistry batteries, the EV user owning the "battery" is just fine: the battery hardware stays in the EV, only the liquid electrolyte is exchanged; in the case the commodity being purchased is replacement electrolyte, which is more like what we do now with fossil fuels. As for the practicalities of swapping battery hardware (labour costs, safety issues, etc): as the video shows, a battery changing robot will do this in just a couple of minutes. Of course, this means that batteries need to be built to certain form-factors and standards. But here we are at the cusp of this new industry, if standards are implemented now then this type of idea can become widely adopted. And with that will come the significant benefits of having substantial energy storage connected to the grid.

old account Frank Eory
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
old account Frank Eory   10/4/2012 7:49:55 PM
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This 100kW supercharger is a step in the right directions, but not nearly far enough. When they get to 1 Megawatt, it will get a lot more compelling for full gasoline-powered vehicle replacement by EVs. I'm still hoping for Doc Brown's "Mr Fusion" home reactor mounted on the back of the car :)

old account Frank Eory
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
old account Frank Eory   10/4/2012 7:47:02 PM
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Sounds great, but there is a cost associated with replacing used batteries with fully-charged brand new ones. Who will pay that cost, and what do you do with the used ones? Recharge them and offer them at the supercharger station? Sure, I'll let you have my 6 month old batteries in exchange for those fully charged 2 year old batteries because I'm in a hurry and don't want to wait to charge mine. There are safety issues and labor cost issues as well with this idea. Swapping out a bank of Li-ion batteries in an EV is not nearly as simple as replacing the lead acid battery in a gasoline-powered car. Will each charging station have a staff of well-trained auto mechanics? Who pays for them?

bensham
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
bensham   10/4/2012 6:59:26 PM
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Another idea is very rapid charging, say 5 minutes. This would be more amenable to a large capacitor bank than electrochemical batteries. If the "refueling" station had a high-capacity storage bank charged up and ready to go an electric car could pull up to the "pump", be connected with a high-current coaxial cable, and have a very high energy transfer in a short time. This would allow recharging to be on a par with current refueling times and methods. It would also allow a more constant recharge of the storage bank, thereby reducing surges on the grid from quick recharges. An added advantage is the charged storage bank at the recharge station could be siphoned off during times of high grid demand.

Sparky_Watt
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
Sparky_Watt   10/1/2012 9:40:15 PM
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A 300 mile range is approximately 5 hours of driving. Why hasn't anyone considered charging over lunch?

johannM
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
johannM   9/28/2012 9:31:04 AM
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Likewise, I have heard that issue regarding Tesla Supercharger. One of the main why reason electric automobiles have not caught on more is because of their restricted range. In fact, to address this problem Tesla Motors have publicized a plan to set up solar quick-charging stations for Tesla drivers across the nation. The service will be free of charge and will be called as [url="http://www.cardealexpert.com/news-information/auto-news/tesla-supercharger-network/"]the Tesla Supercharger network[/url].

jackOfManyTrades
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
jackOfManyTrades   9/28/2012 8:22:24 AM
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You beat me to it, Fabio. This is surely the way to go. If this existed already, imagine the scorn if you suggested having to spend 5 minutes pumping a high flamable, smelly liquid into your car instead of letting a robot change your battery in 1 minute.

Fabio007
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
Fabio007   9/28/2012 5:46:40 AM
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Continuing... But in terms of "solid batteries": a company called Better Place has already started pilot schemes for this idea in Israel and Australia. The other benefit: the buyer of the electric car does NOT buy the battery out-right: they simply pay for the energy used. This reduces the initial cost of the electric car, and makes the economics more in line with our existing fossil-fuel powered cars: you pay for what you use. Here is a link showing a video of a battery being swapped out of an EV: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/better-place/ This of course means the EV stations need to have available more batteries than there are cars using those batteries. But far from being a disadvantage, this could be a distinct benefit and a revenue generator for the EV stations, because the batteries at the station (ie: not in vehicles) could provide much needed energy storage which is of value to the energy grid (eg: "load levelling"). This allows more effective utilisation of existing transmission and generation assets, and importantly, it can also allow for the more effective integration of renewable energy sources into the grid, and hence faster up-take of renewables.

Fabio007
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re: Does Tesla's Supercharger answer the road trip question for EVs?
Fabio007   9/28/2012 5:46:17 AM
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Why fast-charge, when you can just swap out the depleted battery with a fully-charged one? Of course, this means all EV car batteries must be the same (or at least are limited to just 3 or 4 variations, or the risk is the station won't have your battery..!) But if the decision could be made **now** to develop all EV batteries to comply with certain standards (in particular mechanical form-factors that specify size, shape, fixing points and electrical connections, among other features) then that would allow rapid exchange via automated battery exchange stations. The time it would take to swap the battery would be about the same as filling your cars fuel tank now. This is not a new idea; it has been proposed for decades for the standard red-ox batteries with liquid electrolytes (such as those based on the Vanadium and Bromine chemistries), where the tank of "spent" electrolyte is simply emptied and the tank of "fresh" electrolyte is refilled. There are no huge spikes of electrical power required, the electrolyte can be converted from "spent" to "fresh" over a long time frame using minimum cost base-load power generators.

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