Design Con 2015
Breaking News
Comments
Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
<<   <   Page 2 / 4   >   >>
Litho Lady
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
Litho Lady   10/10/2012 2:05:55 PM
NO RATINGS
Why does industry rely on just EUV? What about DSA, NIL, multibeem, other? EUV is in last place.

Litho Lady
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
Litho Lady   10/10/2012 1:59:07 PM
NO RATINGS
.

unknown multiplier
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
unknown multiplier   10/10/2012 5:37:34 AM
NO RATINGS
It gets worse when dose has to double every successive generation to combat shot noise.

krisi
User Rank
CEO
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
krisi   10/9/2012 3:11:39 PM
NO RATINGS
Interesting points in the context of Moore's law vs 3D implementation...as Or-Bach pointed out the only contender to extend the Moore's law is monolithic integration, using TSV will never be cheaper

resistion
User Rank
CEO
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
resistion   10/9/2012 1:18:35 PM
NO RATINGS
" The group also called for development of 500-1,000W EUV light sources by 2016." With the known low efficiency of EUV light generation, I expect each tool to come with its own MW generator!

Or_Bach
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
Or_Bach   10/9/2012 3:14:20 AM
NO RATINGS
I strongly agree with your last statement and in fact the strongest value of integrated circuit is being integrated. Integrated function in one device instead of connecting many devices over PC board represent about an order of magnitude improvement in power performance and cost. An important differentiation to be made is between 3D IC using TSV vs. monolithic 3D. While the cost of devices using TSV is not lower but in fact higher the monolithic 3D IC provide cost reduction as we detailed in our Blog (http://www.monolithic3d.com/2/post/2012/06/is-the-cost-reduction-associated-with-scaling-over.html)

WaywardGeek
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
WaywardGeek   10/8/2012 9:55:03 PM
NO RATINGS
Just to clarify, Moore's Law was originally: "The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of roughly a factor of two per year... Certainly over the short term this rate can be expected to continue, if not to increase." Stacking die can increase the number of components, but without any significant cost savings I'm aware of. That's not what Moore meant. Moore's Law has been breaking down now for a decade, in that people like you and me, and practically every other engineer out there, no longer have any meaningful chance of developing a new state of the art chip in the latest process. Only a few remaining giant corporations can afford it, and they apply their fab technology to fewer and fewer high volume chips. The innovation that made Silicon Valley great is no longer being applied to the latest and greatest silicon. In 1988, I laughed at the 1.5 micron three-metal NMOS process used at HP, because everyone was on 1 micron CMOS by then. Anyone even one process node behind was literally a joke. Now days, there are many times more .35 micron tape outs than 28nm. I'm sorry, but Moore's Law is a corpse that is just still twitching... EUV, unless some fundamental breakthroughs magically appear, will not save Moore's Law. That said, 3D stacking is cool, and I hope it works out as you envision. There is enormous value in being smaller, if not cheaper.

Or_Bach
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
Or_Bach   10/8/2012 6:01:08 PM
NO RATINGS
Yes, I agree. Moore's Law is on going and if you look to the original Moore forecast (1965) it is about: " the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years". Moore attribute it to three trends: Decrease dimension, larger die and improving the architecture. Monolithic 3D is part of the last two. We wrote more about in in our Blog (http://www.monolithic3d.com/2/post/2011/03/guest-contribution-entanglement-squared-by-zvi-or-bach.html)

Youself
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
Youself   10/8/2012 5:02:25 PM
NO RATINGS
May be so, but I've been hearing about the demise of Moore's Law for literally decades now. And in a few months we'll hear how the industry managed to get past the current hurdles. Repeat, rinse.

jeffreyrdiamond
User Rank
Rookie
re: Moore's Law threatened by lithography woes
jeffreyrdiamond   10/8/2012 4:23:57 PM
NO RATINGS
Isn't monolithic 3D really just an area bump, with some plusses and some minuses? You could in principle also just make chips physically larger in 2-D. A 3-D chip with 2 physical layers is not easier to make than double patterning 1 physical layers, is it? Seems quite similar to a multichip module. My impression is most applications are after higher nodes not because they desperately need more than 10 billion transistors, but that they need better device parameters or cost per transistor.

<<   <   Page 2 / 4   >   >>


Flash Poll
Top Comments of the Week
Like Us on Facebook
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Life
Frankenstein's Fix, Teardowns, Sideshows, Design Contests, Reader Content & More
Max Maxfield

DIY Practical Joke Project Idea
Max Maxfield
1 Comment
I just received a rather interesting email from a member of the EETimes community who prefers to remain anonymous. This message was as follows:

Jolt Judges and Andrew Binstock

Jolt Awards: The Best Books
Jolt Judges and Andrew Binstock
1 Comment
As we do every year, Dr. Dobb's recognizes the best books of the last 12 months via the Jolt Awards -- our cycle of product awards given out every two months in each of six categories. No ...

Engineering Investigations

Air Conditioner Falls From Window, Still Works
Engineering Investigations
2 comments
It's autumn in New England. The leaves are turning to red, orange, and gold, my roses are in their second bloom, and it's time to remove the air conditioner from the window. On September ...

David Blaza

The Other Tesla
David Blaza
5 comments
I find myself going to Kickstarter and Indiegogo on a regular basis these days because they have become real innovation marketplaces. As far as I'm concerned, this is where a lot of cool ...