Breaking News
Comments
rick merritt
User Rank
Author
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/16/2012 11:31:30 PM
NO RATINGS
I'd love to hear any real world experiences dealing with chip designs that use double patterning. I hear it ain't easy.

resistion
User Rank
CEO
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
resistion   10/17/2012 12:56:10 AM
NO RATINGS
Intel has used double-exposure techniques for its alternating PSM patterning for the poly gate layer starting at 65 nm. Probably multi-patterning on a few layers should be nothing to them now. The question is if they can handle additional layers such as metal 2/3 requiring double patterning.

any1
User Rank
CEO
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
any1   10/17/2012 1:50:22 PM
NO RATINGS
Double patterning does add a significant amount of complexity to the entire process. And those companies that can do it well will be rewarded. This is where the more vertically integrated companies like Intel and Samsung have an advantage since they can control everything in house. I'm amazed that the foundries like TSMC can execute as well as they do now. But integrating FinFETs, etc. will only make it even more complex to manage in the future. Getting first pass success will become more difficult, and the number of designs at the leading edge will become fewer. Both of these trends are being acclerated by the requirements (costs) of double patterning.

resistion
User Rank
CEO
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
resistion   10/17/2012 9:48:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Worse yet, at least some expect 10 nm may require double patterning even for EUV. http://semimd.com/blog/2012/09/17/will-euv-miss-another-node/ And still worse yet, the EUV throughput is still far short of target, so ASML has acquired Cymer. Apparently, they've scuttled their other EUV source vendor options. http://semimd.com/blog/2012/10/17/asml-to-acquire-cymer/

resistion
User Rank
CEO
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
resistion   10/17/2012 10:36:45 PM
NO RATINGS
With a wavelength of 13.5 nm and NA of 0.33, 10 nm corresponds to k1 less than 0.25, so indeed the current NXE:3300 won't be useful for very long.

rick merritt
User Rank
Author
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/18/2012 12:15:41 AM
NO RATINGS
Intel's Mark Bohr has already said he is considering quad patterning immersion at 10nm. See http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4396146/Intel-sees-quad-patterned-path-to-10-nm-chips

double-o-nothing
User Rank
Rookie
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
double-o-nothing   10/18/2012 3:58:51 PM
NO RATINGS
Even at 14 nm node, there will be more double patterning layers than multi-patterning layers for sure. ASML has already said EUV would only be introduced on a few layers, allowing mix-and-match with immersion, but by that time, even the middle layers would be requiring double patterning.

chipmonk0
User Rank
Manager
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
chipmonk0   10/17/2012 3:48:22 PM
NO RATINGS
Rick : Couple questions about the TSMC 2.5-D Test vehicle you have reported. What was the footprint of the whole thing ( with 4 chips ). Did they give any reason why such a 2.5-D module will be better than current modules / packages used in Smart Phones / Tablets ? Thx

rick merritt
User Rank
Author
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/18/2012 12:17:16 AM
NO RATINGS
They did not give size of the chip. But Hou did say the test run with Wide IO was only to test out the various aspects of the process and the Wide IO IP which would actually be used with a through silicon via stack in commercial chips.

chipmonk0
User Rank
Manager
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
chipmonk0   10/17/2012 3:49:17 PM
NO RATINGS
Rick : Couple questions about the TSMC 2.5-D Test vehicle you have reported. What was the footprint of the whole thing ( with 4 chips ). Did they give any reason why such a 2.5-D module will be any better than current modules / packages used in Smart Phones / Tablets ? Thx

rick merritt
User Rank
Author
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/18/2012 12:17:55 AM
NO RATINGS
Oh, and the TSVs are supposed to provide much greater bandwidth than today's wire bonded stacks

chipmonk0
User Rank
Manager
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
chipmonk0   10/18/2012 4:04:26 PM
NO RATINGS
Thx

marcos83
User Rank
Rookie
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
marcos83   10/19/2012 11:42:34 AM
NO RATINGS
I think this industry is stalling due to the limitations of resolution. The big players have relied on Moore's law as the backbone of their road-map.

de_la_rosa
User Rank
Rookie
re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
de_la_rosa   10/20/2012 9:06:39 PM
NO RATINGS
maybe the last presentation we will see from a big player. Beyond 14nm node, is impossible. Unless electron-beam lithography has something under their sleeve?



Flash Poll
Top Comments of the Week
Like Us on Facebook
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Life
Frankenstein's Fix, Teardowns, Sideshows, Design Contests, Reader Content & More
Max Maxfield

The Best of the Best Videos on YouTube
Max Maxfield
4 comments
A couple of days ago, my chum Paul was visiting me in my office. He'd wandered over from his cubicle in the next bay to take a brief coffee break. This week, Paul had been admiring the ...

Jolt Judges and Andrew Binstock

Jolt Awards: The Best Books
Jolt Judges and Andrew Binstock
1 Comment
As we do every year, Dr. Dobb's recognizes the best books of the last 12 months via the Jolt Awards -- our cycle of product awards given out every two months in each of six categories. No ...

Engineering Investigations

Air Conditioner Falls From Window, Still Works
Engineering Investigations
2 comments
It's autumn in New England. The leaves are turning to red, orange, and gold, my roses are in their second bloom, and it's time to remove the air conditioner from the window. On September ...

David Blaza

The Other Tesla
David Blaza
5 comments
I find myself going to Kickstarter and Indiegogo on a regular basis these days because they have become real innovation marketplaces. As far as I'm concerned, this is where a lot of cool ...