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rick merritt
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/16/2012 11:31:30 PM
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I'd love to hear any real world experiences dealing with chip designs that use double patterning. I hear it ain't easy.

resistion
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
resistion   10/17/2012 12:56:10 AM
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Intel has used double-exposure techniques for its alternating PSM patterning for the poly gate layer starting at 65 nm. Probably multi-patterning on a few layers should be nothing to them now. The question is if they can handle additional layers such as metal 2/3 requiring double patterning.

any1
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
any1   10/17/2012 1:50:22 PM
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Double patterning does add a significant amount of complexity to the entire process. And those companies that can do it well will be rewarded. This is where the more vertically integrated companies like Intel and Samsung have an advantage since they can control everything in house. I'm amazed that the foundries like TSMC can execute as well as they do now. But integrating FinFETs, etc. will only make it even more complex to manage in the future. Getting first pass success will become more difficult, and the number of designs at the leading edge will become fewer. Both of these trends are being acclerated by the requirements (costs) of double patterning.

resistion
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
resistion   10/17/2012 9:48:15 PM
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Worse yet, at least some expect 10 nm may require double patterning even for EUV. http://semimd.com/blog/2012/09/17/will-euv-miss-another-node/ And still worse yet, the EUV throughput is still far short of target, so ASML has acquired Cymer. Apparently, they've scuttled their other EUV source vendor options. http://semimd.com/blog/2012/10/17/asml-to-acquire-cymer/

resistion
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
resistion   10/17/2012 10:36:45 PM
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With a wavelength of 13.5 nm and NA of 0.33, 10 nm corresponds to k1 less than 0.25, so indeed the current NXE:3300 won't be useful for very long.

rick merritt
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/18/2012 12:15:41 AM
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Intel's Mark Bohr has already said he is considering quad patterning immersion at 10nm. See http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4396146/Intel-sees-quad-patterned-path-to-10-nm-chips

double-o-nothing
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
double-o-nothing   10/18/2012 3:58:51 PM
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Even at 14 nm node, there will be more double patterning layers than multi-patterning layers for sure. ASML has already said EUV would only be introduced on a few layers, allowing mix-and-match with immersion, but by that time, even the middle layers would be requiring double patterning.

chipmonk0
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
chipmonk0   10/17/2012 3:48:22 PM
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Rick : Couple questions about the TSMC 2.5-D Test vehicle you have reported. What was the footprint of the whole thing ( with 4 chips ). Did they give any reason why such a 2.5-D module will be better than current modules / packages used in Smart Phones / Tablets ? Thx

rick merritt
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/18/2012 12:17:16 AM
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They did not give size of the chip. But Hou did say the test run with Wide IO was only to test out the various aspects of the process and the Wide IO IP which would actually be used with a through silicon via stack in commercial chips.

chipmonk0
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
chipmonk0   10/17/2012 3:49:17 PM
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Rick : Couple questions about the TSMC 2.5-D Test vehicle you have reported. What was the footprint of the whole thing ( with 4 chips ). Did they give any reason why such a 2.5-D module will be any better than current modules / packages used in Smart Phones / Tablets ? Thx

rick merritt
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
rick merritt   10/18/2012 12:17:55 AM
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Oh, and the TSVs are supposed to provide much greater bandwidth than today's wire bonded stacks

chipmonk0
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
chipmonk0   10/18/2012 4:04:26 PM
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Thx

marcos83
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
marcos83   10/19/2012 11:42:34 AM
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I think this industry is stalling due to the limitations of resolution. The big players have relied on Moore's law as the backbone of their road-map.

de_la_rosa
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re: TSMC taps ARM's V8 on road to 16 nm FinFET
de_la_rosa   10/20/2012 9:06:39 PM
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maybe the last presentation we will see from a big player. Beyond 14nm node, is impossible. Unless electron-beam lithography has something under their sleeve?



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