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nosubject
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
nosubject   11/29/2012 4:50:49 PM
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You said the points. Instead of reform immigrate system, we should better have union/board in EE, such that we have better job security and attract the teenagers to enter the STEM career path.

fundamentals
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
fundamentals   11/29/2012 4:33:57 PM
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There is a tacit assumption in this article that we need the H1-B Visa holders to keep up our technological edge. This is absolutely not the case. Any high tech company willing to pay well can hire truly top notch talent who are US citizens or permanent residents. They come out of woodwork if you open up the wallet! The truth is we need the H1-B Visa holders only in order to keep the engineering pay low. That's why many (large) high tech companies lobby the government for immigration reform. They whine that the engineering pay is already too high. They keep the wages low for everybody not by paying the immigrants less, but buy paying everybody less. Increasing the supply depress the wages for everybody. There is even insult to the injury here: many of these companies will not even blink to pay top notch lawyers five times as much as a top notch engineer.

CharlesE191
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
CharlesE191   11/29/2012 11:07:35 AM
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You question whether we should coerce poor children into a STEM education they donít seem to want . What is the most significant motivator for a child to attain in education? Success. Nothing succeeds like success. What are some of the factors that determine pupil success? 1. The quality of the teaching. Americaís inner-cities schools located in low-SES neighborhoods have become dumping grounds for teachers who canít teach and leaders who canít lead. The latter must be true or they would not accept teachers who canít teach. Part of the problem is that the big cities donít have any money, but another part is that many parent-teacher conferences descend into shouting matches, with the single parent with the low-paying, low-prestige job demanding, rather than presenting a reasoned case, that her child be placed in the academic track rather than the commercial track, and the teacher responding, but the child simply canít do the work. Some believe that the solution is placing the underperforming pupil in a child guidance clinic led by professional psychologists, but neither the parent nor the school can afford it. Often the good teachers canít stand the constant confrontations and lack of cooperation, so they leave. 2. Some of the student-level factors predicting child academic success are the quality of the home learning environment, maternal education/qualifications for child-rearing, financial resources, and occupational prestige of the parent(s). These are in short supply in low-SES neighborhoods. Until the schools develop something like parent clubs to train devoted parents in how to change these factors, there is little hope of helping the child succeed in STEM or anything else.

Duane Benson
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
Duane Benson   11/29/2012 4:38:47 AM
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This country didn't become the one that so many people want to move to by closing its borders. We got this way because most of us are, at some point in our ancestry, from some place else. We were kicked out, chased out, kidnapped out or pressured out of pretty much everywhere else on the planet. Some came to exploit the weak. Many came because they couldn't make it in the old country. Some started here and were smallpoxed out or hunted down just like many of our ancestors were before they got here. I happen to think this is a great country, but I don't think it's that way because there's something magic about being American. I think it's that way because we have welcomed as many people as possible from all over the world. We have good people and not so good people here. Our government does stupid things. All governments do. That's why we have so many checks and balances and why so many people speak out against the government. When we close our borders and decide that only a certain type of person can come here or that it was okay to immigrate when our families got here, but isn't any more, that's when this great experiment dies. Yes, it's important to have tech-heads. But how many poor, downtrodden and uneducated want to come here so they can get educated and have a change at making great things? Elon Musk didn't have a degree when he got here. How many others are there like him?

Robertzz
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
Robertzz   11/29/2012 4:14:38 AM
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please remove the repeat comment, it seems you need to pay your website operators a little better

Robertzz
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
Robertzz   11/29/2012 4:13:13 AM
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Given the obvious lack of money in engineering, why would I want the IEEE to support more visas. I think we make a lot of money in the US by convincing the best and the brightest to come here to work and I think immigration can be good, but as a US based engineer I am looking into other fields and locations to have a better life. Engineering in the US does not pay well.

Robertzz
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re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
Robertzz   11/29/2012 4:08:54 AM
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I was born in the USA and I have a graduate engineering degree from a top level university. I have had 4 jobs in 2 different industries in the 12 years since I graduated. The first 3 jobs were in smaller or venture funded companies, but the current job is in a larger supposedly stable company were I have been advancing through the ranks for 7 years. Just recently the long term viability of my current job seems to be in jeopardy. I make less money at a higher rank with more responsibility and more hours than my wife who works at another company. She has an MBA from a good, but second tier university. I love engineering, but I cannot honestly recommend an advanced degree in science or engineering in the USA. Go into medicine or get an undergrad in something and get an MBA. Engineering does not pay well in the USA. Show me the money, Jerry.

bobzz0
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Manager
re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
bobzz0   11/29/2012 4:03:16 AM
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I was born in the USA and I have a graduate engineering degree from a top level university. I have had 4 jobs in 2 different industries in the 12 years since I graduated. The first 3 jobs were in smaller or venture funded companies, but the current job is in a larger supposedly stable company were I have been advancing through the ranks for 7 years. Just recently the long term viability of my current job seems to be in jeopardy. I make less money at a higher rank with more responsibility and more hours than my wife who works at another company. She has an MBA from a good, but second tier university. I love engineering, but I cannot honestly recommend an advanced degree in science or engineering in the USA. Go into medicine or get an undergrad in something and get an MBA. Engineering does not pay well in the USA! Show me the money, Jerry!

bobzz0
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Manager
re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
bobzz0   11/29/2012 4:01:57 AM
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I was born in the USA and I have a graduate engineering degree from a top level university. I have had 4 jobs in 2 different industries in the 12 years since I graduated. The first 3 jobs were in smaller or venture funded companies, but the current job is in a larger supposedly stable company were I have been advancing through the ranks for 7 years. Just recently the long term viability of my current job seems to be in jeopardy. I make less money at a higher rank with more responsibility and more hours than my wife who works at another company. She has an MBA from a good, but second tier university. I love engineering, but I cannot honestly recommend an advanced degree in science or engineering in the USA. Go into medicine or get an undergrad in something and get an MBA. Engineering does not pay well in the USA! Show me the money, Jerry!

danny1024
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Rookie
re: Time for engineers to weigh in on immigration
danny1024   11/29/2012 4:01:03 AM
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Every good employeer has the notion of "cultural fit" when evaluating candidates. This refers to the culture of the organization rather than the culture of the host country or the culture of the majority of employees. However, organizational culture cannot help but be strongly influenced by the host nation's culture and the culture of the employees especially the founders. If look at the top tech companies in the US, they were with very few exceptions, founded by native born US citizens. Thus, the best cultural fits are likely (but not exclusively) to be those individuals who were raised from an early age in that culture.

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