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BBlitz
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
BBlitz   12/10/2012 9:01:02 PM
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Intuitive...the word always reminds me of a funny true story from the early 1990's. A former co-worker of mine was hired by the University of Saint Louis and was asked to train an Administrative Assistant (who was fluent in DOS/Wordperfect) to use Windows/Word for the first time. After a quick demo, he let her drive, and nearly got fired for laughing hysterically when she physically picked up the mouse to go to the top of the screen! FORWARD to go UP, what crazyness was that?? Thankfully Windows never became the OS for airplane controls... ;-)

xorbit
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
xorbit   12/10/2012 5:13:22 PM
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Obviously Microsoft doesn't have any clear direction, when you compare the ribbon's "throw everything in your face at the same time" style with Metro's "show as little useful stuff at the same time" style. What a mess. Wouldn't surprise me if one or the other will get canned in a very short time. As for Metro, it is crazy how little information is shown on a typical screen, with huge amounts of whitespace, while everything you need to use is actually hidden OFF the screen! This may be barely palatable on a small tablet, but on a 22" desktop monitor, it's outrageous. The whole interface seems designed for maximum mouse movement. Doctors treating carpal tunnel will love it. Then there's the weird disconnected nature of the new Metro UI and the traditional desktop. Is one "under" the other, or "on top" of it? Or "next" to it? It seems impossible to convey a clear mental picture of their relationship, which is disturbing to most minds. Without a mental map, it is hard to feel at home. I have been playing with Windows 8 on my wife's laptop and found it painful. I hope to avoid it for a while longer here at work (still on XP). For my personal computers, I've been happily using Linux for years now. There have been changes to the UI there too, but they seem much more sane for desktop use, even if they try to become more touch friendly (I really like Gnome 3 myself).

BobsView
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
BobsView   12/10/2012 2:05:36 PM
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When I first got Windows 8, about 3 weeks ago, I also complained how un-intuitive it was. But when you really think about it, how intuitive was Windows XP? You had to push the START button to shut down the machine, not very intuitive. You have to Right-Click for certain special functions, also not very intuitive. To change my Outlook email properties, I have to do it in MS WORD, not in Outlook. Again not very intuitive. The bottom line is, no program is really intuitive. We learn it as we go along, and then we think it is intuitive because we no longer have to think. Give Windows 8 a chance. There's a lot about it I don't really like, but I think in a couple of months, I won't give it a second thought = intuitive!

BeALert
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
BeALert   12/10/2012 6:46:47 AM
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I've had a look on the web now and I see that win8 for phones isn't win8 for PCs. That being said, I get the impresson my idea should still work with MS Surface?

BeALert
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
BeALert   12/10/2012 6:15:27 AM
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Has anyone tried to use a phone or tablet as a PC/Laptop replacement? I'm thinking a docking station with network, a mouse, keyboard and a monitor or two attached? Use the phone/tablet processor to do editing, documentation etc and farm off simulation, synthesis, place and route etc to something sitting on the network (though the phone/tablet processors should be able to do much of this anyway - 1GHz+ quad core). Has anyone experimented with running Win7 apps on a Win8 phone?

ksanger
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
ksanger   12/9/2012 6:42:29 PM
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My first uP was a 6800 DK2 kit. I feel at home here. I thought when MS Office changed to the ribbon it was a horrible thing. Give Beta versions to new non-paying customers who loved it and ignore your installed base. I currently have numerous Android devices, Droid Original, Droid Razr, and a Hacked Nook Color. I hope for an Asus TF700 as the Nook is terribly underpowered. Yet I use it to surf and sudoku. I can see MS's need for a tablet OS. If Win8 enables a tablet interface and lets you switch to a full blown development system that is going to be great. It sounds like it needs a little work. I can't see myself running Netbeans on Android yet. Maybe with the power of the Asus Infinity Tab. Until then I use a Win7 Toshiba Laptop that I love for its weight and portability yet hate having the small screen and mouse pad. At home I'm on Ubuntu 12.04 with a six core AMD processor. I love it. Too bad it doesn't fit in my briefcase. I didn't love 12.04 at first. The tiles felt awkward and I missed the old desktop. But its definitely workable once you figure out how to find your apps. Again this sounds like Win8. I haven't booted into Win7 at home in a long time. I am working on getting Win7 running in VirtualBox concurrently under Ubuntu 12.04... In short Win8 on a tablet may enable it to fully replace development on a laptop. I think that's MS's intent. I'm hoping that Linux under Android, or Android under Linux will be faster and equally reliable. Then my tablets will enable development and I can stick to Linux. Linux has a long way to go before it becomes usable by everyday people. So does Android as its updates are a horrible experience. My favorite OS would never need updates. I once ran Fedora Core 4 for 10 years until my bank no longer worked with its version of Firefox. I can live with that.

TanjB
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
TanjB   12/9/2012 6:37:54 AM
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Win8 is not simply for touch. It enables new hardware which uses touch. Not everything with touch is a tablet. I'm writing this on a Dell One 27, and can move easily back and forth between kb, touch, and mouse, depending on what I do. If I want to draw something the One kneels down like an easel. Did Win8 get everything right? No, it is new, it will need to adjust. I don't think you see much advantage moving from Win7 to Win8 on old hardware (I have both around the house now) which is hardly surprising considering that Win7 is the end of a long line of co-evolution. In order to appreciate Win8, try it on new hardware. A laptop with a multitouch screen, or a tablet, or an all-in-one with touch. And take 5 minutes to study the basics. Yeah, they decided to make some changes. You guys are engineers, you can understand the chasm issues. If you like Win7 on current hardware, no problem. But I think if you are willing to think about why the UX changes were made, and experience them on new hardware, Win8 will start to make sense. Not saying they got it all right. But they were definitely in chasm-jumping mode, and for good reasons.

WKetel
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
WKetel   12/9/2012 3:24:54 AM
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The new fad called Windows 8 is aimed at those consumers with the milliseconds attention span, who never create anything except text messages. For those of us who create actual designs for real things, not just software, and real documents that convey detailed information correctly, we need something fully intuitive, and the worst possible thing is to be constantly changing how our tools work. And change is seldom an improvement, ESPECIALLY FROM MICROSOFT!!! Aside from that, a company with integrity would not sell products loaded with bugs. I have heard the cop-out that the huge OS is just to big to debug fully, which clearly indicates that it is just plain too big! Perhaps that never occurred to anybody? Bigger is seldom better, except possibly for a very few things, and software is none of them.

WKetel
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
WKetel   12/9/2012 3:23:27 AM
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I think Nav... is correct. The new fad is aimed at those consumers with the milliseconds attention span, who never create anything except text messages. For those of us who create actual designs for real things, not just software, and real documents that convey detailed information correctly, we need something fully intuitive, and the worst possible thing is to be constantly changing how our tools work. And change is seldom an improvement, ESPECIALLY FROM MICROSOFT!!! Aside from that, a company with integrity would not sell products loaded with bugs. I have heard the cop-out that the huge OS is just to big to debug fully, which clearly indicates that it is just plain too big! Perhaps that never occurred to anybody? Bigger is seldom better, except possibly for a very few things, and software is none of them.

LiketoBike
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re: Donít talk to me about Windows 8!
LiketoBike   12/8/2012 7:14:36 PM
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Totally agree. Desktop does-not-equal laptop. The problem (well, ONE problem) arises when folks try to force-fit this (tablet OS on a "traditional" PC).

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