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BJ-5
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
BJ-5   12/7/2012 8:05:24 PM
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Rick, Implication for Intel's first 22nm Valley view (Atom SOC) will have somewhere in the neighborhood 30-40% higher cost than equal parts from Qualcomm (snapdragon) or nVidia (Tegra 4) fabricated parts in foundry 28LP or 28HPM but bigger problem is TAM is moving to integrated apps and base band on single SOC. Valley view not having on die integrated LTE base band makes it uninteresting to market

resistion
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
resistion   12/7/2012 5:03:59 PM
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Well to be exact not every layer is double patterned. It's not automatic doubling of chip cost. It will be diluted by large number of non-doubled metal layers.

rick merritt
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
rick merritt   12/7/2012 4:54:52 PM
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Of course, double patterning will raise costs even if all else was the same

rick merritt
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
rick merritt   12/7/2012 4:54:24 PM
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What's the implication for Intel's own mobile SoCs aka Medfield and follow ons?

the_floating_ gate
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
the_floating_ gate   12/7/2012 4:21:04 PM
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Take a look at wafer price projections (past and future) Nvidia deeply unhappy with TSMC, claims 20nm essentially worthless http://www.extremetech.com/computing/123529-nvidia-deeply-unhappy-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless ASML stated just litho will be 1.7x for 20nm compared to 28nm

BJ-5
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
BJ-5   12/7/2012 3:12:24 PM
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Rick, 100% correct. Intel's manufacturing for foundry and internal products only is viable due to cost for it's $100-1000 CPU and select high margin FPGA and ASICs. Someday the analysis will understand Intel does not have a manufacturing advantage for cost sensitive mobile or foundry to Apple.

rick merritt
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
rick merritt   12/7/2012 2:43:49 PM
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Thanks Song Chou. That strongly suggests Intel is not ready to supply foundry services to anything but cost insensitive parts such as FPGAs and router ASICs

song-chou-1
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
song-chou-1   12/7/2012 12:42:23 PM
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I attended and McGregor also said "20nm costing more will surprise market" that is partly because Intel Marketing is talking different message But I spoke to someone in Intel Procurement Group about why they are taping out LTE and RF mobile chips at TSMC 28nm. Intel guy said Intel's advanced internal nodes manufacturing (22 and 14nm) was not cost effective with foundry. low cost mobile chips are going go stay at 28nm for industry and even Intel (using outside manufacturing)

resistion
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re: Broadcom sees rising 20 nm costs amid handset push
resistion   12/7/2012 6:11:45 AM
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The margin per transistor may rise (compensating higher cost) if the power per transistor is lower. But even this scaling will be limited as well, by noise. 20 nm is already very small (anybody recall the electron mean free path?)

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