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Jack.L
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CEO
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
Jack.L   1/15/2013 7:24:29 PM
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Would it be a good time to point out "The Linux Factor"? help.fulguy ... I see an extension of your argument being ... if there is no Arm, that some "free" core will take over. I think that brings us back to the Linux factor .... which was claimed many times over would take over. Has it? Nope. In terms of user interfacing OSes, its market share has actually declined as every major cell phone does not run Linux. The reality is that something as complex as an O/S, a core, etc. ... which are increasing in complexity, requires an entity to take care of it. Somewhere to go for technical support, someone to ensure accuracy, roadmap, etc. Someone to yell at when things don't work. For the foreseeable future, that is going to be Arm for a large portion of the processor space. You are right, ARMs revenue is not enourmous. For that reason, its a good ROI for licensese to pay them so that they can concentrate on what they do. Apple is not a processor company. They are an ecosystem company. Samsung is a consumer products company with a semiconductor company. Qualcomm provides communications, etc. While the processor core is important, at the end of the day, it is not the business these companies are in, it is an enabler. That is what Peter's article is about. For those who have the resources to try to differentiate their core business through a processor license they will. I.e. Apple, etc. For those where the core does not differentiate the product, i.e. a microcontroller, then they will stick to ARM as the core is not seen as a differentiating feature in that market.

Jack.L
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CEO
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
Jack.L   1/15/2013 7:12:11 PM
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Of the total spend on semiconductors, what percentage do you think goes to processor cores outside of the PC industry? It's okay though, I have always thought myself in the Electronics industry, not the Semiconductor industry.

Jack.L
User Rank
CEO
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
Jack.L   1/15/2013 7:10:27 PM
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You know in all my years I have never heard that saying. What a great saying. I think we have all been met with complaceny in business. This is a great way of saying don't ge complacent.

danny1024
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Rookie
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
danny1024   1/15/2013 6:34:50 PM
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I think the power/perf numbers for Intel's Clovertrail and Medfield refute ARM's putative power efficiency advantage. But other major take away is that in terms of power efficiency in mobile form factors, the core is not that significant an energy consumer. Most detailed power analysis show that: 1. the screen 2. the DRAM 3. wireless PHY, 4. Network protocol processor 5. GPU 6. CPU are the top consumers of energy roughly in that order. Consequently, a low-cost, reasonably performant CPU is desirable for which ARM is a good fit. As was previously stated, ARM's fairly mature software stack (and EDA stack)also make it appealing despite the fact that the ARM ISA is crufty; it's 20+ years old and can't really be called RISC anymore. Nevertheless, ARM is cheap to license at any level and the royalty payments per chip are modest. IMHO, the core no longer provides competitive advantage; it's the other accelerators and PHY ASICs (and the tools that enable developers to leverage them) that will differentiate SoCs.

Peter Clarke
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re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
Peter Clarke   1/15/2013 6:17:42 PM
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@help.fulguy Big bucks is a subjective term. So let's quantify it. In 2011 ARM's annual revenue was $785 million. In 2012 it will probably be about $900 million. A combination of Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm and many others, are voluntarily stuffing that much money into ARM's pockets.

help.fulguy
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Manager
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
help.fulguy   1/15/2013 5:35:25 PM
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@Peter. Big bucks? Have you seen ARMs financial reports? Apple's budget for Toilet paper is more than ARM's entire revenue.

Duane Benson
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Blogger
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
Duane Benson   1/15/2013 12:13:57 AM
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I would not agree that ARM is going to destroy the Industry. I do believe that the ARM universe will go through a lot of consolidation and drop-out. Most (if not all) successful industries do. It's part of the natural evolution of an industry. Whether Apple or Qualcomm are winning because of ARM is a different question. The fact that ARM processors hit the right performance level, power frugality and cost targets allowed Apple to create their phones and tablets. Of course, Apple's phones and tablets have grown that market need so each begets the other. ARM and Apple are both an integral part of each others' success. However, if not ARM, then perhaps it would have been MIPs or a low-power AMD offering. The need would have hit at some point and someone would have found or made a solution if ARM weren't there to provide it. The timing may have been different, but not by much.

Peter Clarke
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Blogger
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
Peter Clarke   1/14/2013 10:14:40 PM
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@help.fulguy The argument in business is always compete with yourself because if you don't someone else will. If ARM is not part of the success or necessary to the success of Apple, Qualcomm and others, one wonders why they pay out the big bucks to ARM at all. Why not invent their own architectures or license an alternative? So if ARM is going to destroy the semiconductor industry....who, in your opinion, will pick up the pieces and be ultimate winners?

help.fulguy
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Manager
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
help.fulguy   1/14/2013 6:59:05 PM
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@ Peter, dont bite the hand (ARM) that feeds you. ARM is going to destroy the Semi industry by commoditizing before dying a brutal death. You talk of Apple and QCom winning. QCOM is winning not because of ARM core, but it can sell silicon at cost and making profit on licensing. We all know how Apple is winning. Again, not because of ARM core. That leaves a bunch of ARM losers such as Nvidia, Marvell, BRCM, STE, STM, etc. etc. Time is ticking for these losers to get and so is for ARM.

sw guy
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CEO
re: London Calling: Are ARM's core days numbered?
sw guy   1/14/2013 3:12:59 PM
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Not sure Qualcom and Broadcom are hunting same target (litteral translation of french expression). Qualcom's Krait CPU architecture matters for chip buyer or final customer, while Broadcom's one matters for Broadcom at least for SoC I had to play with: What Broadcom offered me what a SoC with right network protocols/interfaces features, plus ability to run a standard OS to drive said features. Always regarding Broadcom, I wonder if developping a new CPU architecture while some different in-house ones already exist is that difficult ? (for experts, of course)

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