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EREBUS0
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
EREBUS0   3/6/2013 9:24:13 PM
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The Chinese have an active information collection policy inplace for the last 3 or 4 decades. They are looking for anything and everything that they think might be of use. Have they used the information they collect? Yes. There are few if any Chinese manufactured devices that do not include stollen informaton in them or their manufacturing process. China feels that it has a need to overcome their past centuries of being exploited and they have no heisitation at going everywhere to get a leg up. So if you have secrets, keep them off your computer. Otherwise, consider it stolen. Just my opinion.

R_Colin_Johnson
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
R_Colin_Johnson   3/6/2013 10:41:48 PM
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Yes, its sad that we have to create walled gardens just to feel secure, but as you imply, its just a fact of life.

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/7/2013 12:21:55 AM
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@johnson, lmao, truely, have you passed your high school history class? remember Hiroshima? what a xxx better consult with your Junko to learn some history.

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/7/2013 12:31:54 AM
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I need to forward this article to more ppl. I will keep your name on it but won't pay you a penny. for the thousands of jap civilians/womans/babies killed by US mass destruction weapons in WWII and their fellow country man (Junko co.) this is a reminder of how shameless and blood thirsty and fake americans are.

SkyhighSG
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
SkyhighSG   3/7/2013 6:38:36 PM
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No matter how powerful China becomes, it will never threaten any nation, except Japan. I don't see why the US should be wary. Just because of 38 line that divides N and S Korea, where China and US fought bitterly? Historically, there is no bitter hatre between two countries. That's not the same for China and Japan, a blood enermy for many centuries. You got to read the history why Chinese hate the Japanese very much. Firstly, US always want to find an imaginary enermy for align its national agenda. First, it was the Soviet during the Cold War. Then it was China, after USSR collapsed. Has this worked? Well... Maybe... China is not interested and never used such pyschological method like US did on its people. China is interested to do more meaningful things. 1. To develop inland provinces, so as to narrow the rich-poor gap, especially when the coastal provinces are developing too fast. 2. To plan and create more resources for future food and energy needs. 3. To control social problems, e.g. increasingly expensive housing and plaguing food safety (e.g. tainted milk). 4. Re-unification of Taiwan (due to civil war between Chiang Kai Shek-led KMT and Mao-led Communism Party). Do you think China wants war with US? As an overseas Chinese for the 3rd generation, educated in the West, brought up in an oriental family, I have never seen China raged a war. Historically, dig as much as you want, China only gets bullied, from Mongolian under Genghis Khan, from Manchurian under Nuurhaci, from the Eight Western Nations (US, GB, Germany, Aust-Hungary, Russia, Japan, France and Italy) and Japanese (again in WW2). Even the greatest naval history, launched by Admiral Cheng Ho, visited the Indian Ocean 7 times, with mightiest fleet in the history, good enough to wipe any countries in its path, only pay goodwill and establish trades. Think about it. What good for China to start a war, when it enjoys being a world factory and a create wealth for its people?

SkyhighSG
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
SkyhighSG   3/7/2013 6:58:50 PM
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I do not know what history is taught in the US or in other Western nations, but I do know very well that in Japan, the history is twisted to tell their younger generations that Japan never started WW2 in the Pacific. They told their kids that Japan helped to build Asia with advanced technologies and manage their resources with Imperial Japanese military control and remove incompetent monarchies in those less developed countries. Sometimes lies are made beautiful, don't you think? Let me share with you, to correct things that the West never tells you. 1. Sun Tze's Art of War was devised to help weak states to counteract the ambitious and stronger states(during the China's Spring-Autumn Warring States 300 to 700 BC). The KMT and the Communism used it to fight the Japanese in WW2, for example. Ask yourself, did China use Sun Tze's Art of War to invade any country? China trained Vietnam in military tactics in Yunnan at Kunming's Military School, and Vietnam tried to invade China in the late 70's and lost. China saw the Kim's army can no longer hold its line to US's supported South Korea. Fear that the Kim's forces will barge into China's northeastern boundary. Did US's history tell you US bombarded China's territory behind the border between China and Korea? Of course US never tells you in the history because it is disgraceful. If you are China, what would you do? Obviously China had to retaliated because US invaded her border.

SkyhighSG
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
SkyhighSG   3/7/2013 6:58:55 PM
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You must know - China always play a defensive role under basic principle - Do not cross the line. If you do, you are picking a fight. Did US build Anti-Ballistic Missile Shield? To guard against who? When US made China an enermy, you are telling the whole world. You think you got any enermy and you made a shield to confirm this. Did China do that? No. Why? China still believes China has to do nothing because friend or enermy is in your mind. If you think you got any enermy, you have it. If you think you don't, you simply don't. Ask yourself the last question. Why US gets 911 attack on its twin towers? Why China didn't get attacks as dramatic as this? Answer is simple. US did many wrongs in the past and made too many enermies. It is just as simple as that. Do less evil, do more good and make more friends.

SkyhighSG
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
SkyhighSG   3/7/2013 7:08:34 PM
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I leave the below facts for you to think about it. 1. In 1998, US fired a satellite-guided missile and hit the Chinese-Yugoslavia's embassy. US claimed it was misguided. Do you buy this story? Any idiot will know it is deliberate. 2. In 2005, US sent is spy plane to survey South China. This spy plane entered China's airspace and given THREE warnings to retreat. Instead of firing anti-aircraft missile to shoot it down, China sent planes to intercept and given FINAL warning for this spy plane to retreat. This US spy plane still refused to retreat. Given no choice, yet not wanting to shoot it down (THAT WILL GIVE USA the EXCUSE to start a WAR with China), the Chinese interceptor has to forced this US spy plane to land in the nearest airfield. Ask yourself, who started this friction? Any idiot will know US started it. Why send your spy plane, when you US knows well it will cause tension with China? Isn't this telling the whole world US wants to pick a fight with China?

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/8/2013 1:09:14 AM
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very well said , skyhigh. amercians won't target civilian.... yeah if they don't feel like to and for better image purpose, who don't like better images? but those A-bombs, they are not misguided, they are precisely aimed at the center of cities packed with civilians.

SkyhighSG
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
SkyhighSG   3/8/2013 1:36:08 PM
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All I wanted to say, to Amercians in the previous generations, this generation and future generations, do not err the footsteps of the past that were wrong. Quantitative Easing is bad enough. In fact, under Obama's Administration, you made THREE QEs. Still want more? Your US debt pulled the whole world with you down to the abyss. Is this fair? Your so-called enermy - China, helped you out in 2008 and 2009 by buying your US bonds, injecting money to bail you out, but you betrayed Chinese trust and immediately rolled your plans to execute QE, de-valuing your US dollars. Before Lehman Bros collapsed Sep/Oct 2008, you sold structured bonds to Europe, causing subprime and turned many investors in Europe bankrupt and pauper OVERNIGHT. My advice - stop harming the world. Do less evil. Do more good. Your problems have implicated everyone in the entire world for too many years since 2008. Oneday, USA will not have any friend, but enermies. Today, you may be a superpower thinking technology is your only protection. Do not forget, no matter how strong you are, there is always a weakness. Do more good. Do invest in the future with renewable and sustainable energy and technologies. You can read what Al Gore has spoken in AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH. "When it is late, you could be too late to realise" Sometimes, it is better to start doing good, early...

Duane Benson
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
Duane Benson   3/8/2013 6:56:36 PM
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SkyhighSG, et al. I'm not a fan of discussing politics in electronics publications, or really anywhere, but this series of comments strikes a nerve with me. I don't think that most of the world really understands the United States, which is ironic, because we are largely comprised of the rest of the world. That means that every strength, every failing and everything in between that exists here, also exists outside of this country and vice versa. For much of human history - perhaps all of human history - the major theme of the human race has been to conqueror, exterminate or enslave someone else. Sadly that's what we humans have done and sadly, a lot of that still goes on. The key differences with the US, in my opinion, are how we got here and how we treat our government. The vast majority of us are not from here. We were kicked out, chased out or kidnapped out from everywhere and anywhere else. We were the people that couldn't hack it in the old world. We were the people that saw this country as an opportunity to exploit land, resources or people. Some of us were here first but were killed off by smallpox from Europe and the remaining few were treated like animals for quite a few years. We held on to slavery way longer than we should have. As "the land of the free" we should never have allowed slavery, but we did. Many of us are here because our ancestors were on the run or were hiding from something. Some wanted to come here and bully people. We thought the governments we used to live under were bad. We rebelled against everything and everyone. We are still rebelling, both here and in our former homelands. We rebel against what we see as injustice whether it's our business or not. Many of our "friends" are more or less reluctant friends. Sometimes we're bullys and sometimes we're humanitarians - just like everyone else. - continued in next message -

Duane Benson
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
Duane Benson   3/8/2013 6:56:45 PM
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- Continued from previous message - We are the dregs of the old world, the misfits, the opportunists. Pretty much every bad thing that any country in the world has every done has done to some degree here at one point or another. Any of you outside of the borders that hate us, despise us, envy us, like us, love us or whatever are really just looking at yourselves. The other key difference with this country is our distrust of government - all governments. Nationalism ebbs and flows here, of course, but not trusting government is built in to the foundation of this country's government. By and large, we only reluctantly accept any government. It's in our constitution and it's in the structure of our government. A lot of the world doesn't trust our government or like us at all. Well, neither do we. We, by design, give different parts of our government the boot every few years. Some out most vocal critics are our own people. We're just less likely to kill them for being critical than are some other countries. Yet with all of that, we've managed to build a pretty good life for ourselves. We have a lot of work yet to do, but so does everyone else. As evidenced by the number of people that still want to move here from the rest of the world, we must be doing something right. A kid can move here from Russia and end up starting one of the most influential companies in the modern world. You can move here from South Africa and end up sending rockets into outer space. You can have a Kenyan father and a poverty stricken American mother and end up as president. We've done a few things right.

Bert22306
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CEO
re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
Bert22306   3/8/2013 10:11:35 PM
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Yeah, I'm with Duane, in response to the barrage of political posturing posts. The fundamental difference between Americans and most other countries' citizens is, we don't bend over backwards to try to justify the mistakes of our government or other citizens. Nor does our press. Big difference. For example, I can't see how the US press would have had the gall to imply, back in that 2001 P-3 incident 110 Km south of Hainan in international waters, that a P-3 could outmaneuver a jet fighter. Most papers in this country would be embarrassed to publish such drivel. We would equally not try to justify shooting down a civilian, unarmed, 747, with claims that it had violated our air space and was a spook flight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 Where people get thrown in jail for telling the truth, this sort of nonsense happens on a regular basis.

bogdanbmcc
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
bogdanbmcc   3/8/2013 10:46:36 PM
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I was born, grew up and left a communist country of much milder issue than China. While US certainly has got its share of sins while exercising power I have good grounds to shudder while thinking what a powerful China might do. And, no, I am not ignorant of China at all, I do agree that China grievances are real. But I also understand that the ruling entity of China might have little of no compunction to use these grievances to whip up a nationalistic fervor. The dynamics of totalitarian systems are such that the violence is always very close by ...

resistion
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
resistion   3/10/2013 4:02:56 PM
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Lol, US must be able to civilians in cyberspace if it wants to effectively fight terrorism. Whether it does so, I don't think it wants us to know.

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/11/2013 12:35:56 AM
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great threads, impressive. slavery, I almost forget it. reminds me of the movie cold mountain, american solder (south or north) murder civilian babies, rape civilian ladies in it. @ Johnson, are you from mars?

Bert22306
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CEO
re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
Bert22306   3/11/2013 8:26:38 AM
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You have to admit, though, that these references sound hollow, coming from a country without a free press. Here, start reading the more recent history you should know about, say after the Sino-Japanese war: http://www.enotes.com/china-reference/china I'm always skeptical of those who can't find a way to criticize their own first. They lose credibility.

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/12/2013 1:09:41 AM
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lol, can you say you wish your president die tomorrow in US? I doubt it. In china we can access EET, WSJ, BBC, CNN , you name it. so what's your point? do you know more news, no. can you call your leader a monkey? No. btw, in china you don't need to wait till 21 to drink beer. yeah, in US porn is much easier to get. which is a advantage for americans. do you mean porn improve your credibility?

Bert22306
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
Bert22306   3/12/2013 1:24:19 AM
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Yes, of course, anyone here can make a fool of themselves anytime they please. What do you think would happen? The Red Guard would lock you up? Come now. Inform yourself. Like I already said, criticism against the administration, in the US, comes from Americans first and loudest. You can HARDLY same the same about China. So your criticisms aginst the US sound phoney and forced. Can you use a regular Google search engine in China? No? What are you afraid of?

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/12/2013 2:32:05 AM
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@bert, I think your problem is you never lived/visited china and all your view come from sth maybe 20-50 years old. 1. chinese ppl can criticize gvt. that's how china maintain a 8% growth rate for 20 years. ppl complain about corruption, air, CPI etc and gvt will take action. many chinese policy change comes from ppl's criticism (real estate tax etc.) 2. you can't allow all information to free flow in a society. only americans are stupid enough to believe freedom will bring em all good. we agree with american christians that one need to keep away from certain evil/unhealthy propagandas. 3. you must be a atheist to be so naive.

David Ashton
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
David Ashton   3/12/2013 3:10:23 AM
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Bert et al, trying to get any sense out of these trolls is much like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/12/2013 5:21:14 AM
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yeap, politics is complicated. for some simple eng minds.

resistion
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
resistion   3/12/2013 2:00:47 PM
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It's hilarious! Must be classic Python.

Duane Benson
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
Duane Benson   3/14/2013 9:14:58 PM
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David - That's one of my favorite Monty Python skits. My understanding is that the name "Python" was inspired by Monty Python. Maybe the author spent too many sessions feeling like he was in a software argument clinic with the languages of the day.

David Ashton
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
David Ashton   3/15/2013 4:22:11 AM
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:-))

nosubject
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
nosubject   3/14/2013 9:45:33 PM
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What was happening when this CyberSpy news came out? Answer is: Budget Cut. That explained why the news was there -- To get and keep some budget for ***. A kind of Media Engineering, an engineering way to brainwash in the demo society.

sprite0022
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
sprite0022   3/15/2013 8:50:26 AM
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I have a better theory for this. NYT was banned last year due to it's chinese leader gossip column, it 's losing ad from it and pissed off. this string of news 1st appeared in NYT. NYT 's retaliation...

OmegaMan
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
OmegaMan   3/15/2013 5:20:54 PM
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Isn't freedom of speech wonderful!

nosubject
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re: China's hollow cyber-espionage argument
nosubject   3/15/2013 8:02:52 PM
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Freedom of speech is wonderful. However, sooner or later, it evolves to Money Talks.



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