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resistion
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Re: Many 3D-NAND Styles
resistion   7/15/2013 3:43:55 AM
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No only that nitride charge trapping has not replaced floating gate. But the reliability differences are in the literature.

Peter Clarke
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Re: Many 3D-NAND Styles
Peter Clarke   7/15/2013 3:32:07 AM
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My understanding is that nitride charge-trapping as a principle of NVM has been around for a longt time.


So when you say it is unqualified, do you mean at such small geometries?

resistion
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CEO
Many 3D-NAND Styles
resistion   7/5/2013 6:10:37 PM
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Samsung actually proposed more options for 3D NAND Flash: TCAT, VSAT and vertical gate. I think they would win any 3D NAND war Toshiba starts.

If such a war can be run, that is. Since the 3D NAND is based on charge trapping in nitride, not floating gate, the nitride charge trapping reliability issues come to fore. The move to charge trapping has not yet preceded the move to 3D-NAND. This technology is still a high-risk technology that has not yet been qualified. Since it cannot prevent charge spreading like floating gate, there is a fundamental issue there.

any1
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CEO
NAND capacity
any1   7/5/2013 12:32:00 PM
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If Toshiba doesn't buid more NAND capacity then they will loose market share to someone else who will - probably Samsung.  It's a high stakes business and you have to be able to pull the trigger when you think the timing is right.

goafrit
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Re: 3d inevitable
goafrit   7/4/2013 7:05:33 PM
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>> With so much die stacking being used in mobiles, it seems inevitable that at some point, it will be easier to "push a process node" by stacking rather than shrinking.

If you look carefully in these die stacking systems, we are not getting the best performance because the software we hope to mine their efficiencies are still sub-optimal. The main problem is not the stacking but embedded software that optimizes them.

goafrit
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Manager
Re: 3D and NAND, but not together
goafrit   7/4/2013 7:02:52 PM
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I had since thought that NAND is a dying business for others withthe position of Samsung. Will be good to see Toshiba succeed to avoid any potential monopoly in this business.

Peter Clarke
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Re: Less than 100% endorsement
Peter Clarke   7/4/2013 5:48:47 AM
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@resistion

Well we can never be 100% sure what will happen in the future but SanDisk-Toshiba seem the furthest down the road towards 3D NAND.

Intel thinks you need more layers to make it viable and as you and others have pointed out that creates challenges in vertical etching and yield.

If there is some breakthrough in scaling 2D NVM or stacking of 2D NVM I am sure any and all could abandon 3D NAND -- but at present it is 3D NAND on the "roadmap."

 

 

resistion
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CEO
Less than 100% endorsement
resistion   7/3/2013 6:32:35 PM
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Since Toshiba's and Sandisk's statements still mention extension of 2D NAND in Fab 5 Phase 2, the endorsement of 3D NAND at this point still seems short of 100%.

selinz
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CEO
3d inevitable
selinz   7/3/2013 5:27:25 PM
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With so much die stacking being used in mobiles, it seems inevitable that at some point, it will be easier to "push a process node" by stacking rather than shrinking. The question is when. The question is how it will be architectured. seem like keeping pieces in testable slabs makes the most sense. Will it make sense to bring BIST engines as a separate slab or stack a separate layer to handle this...

franzChen
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Rookie
Re: 3D and NAND, but not together
franzChen   7/3/2013 2:52:29 PM
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3D NAND will happen, before 3D ReRAM happens. Though either 3 generations, or more than / less than that, still remains a question mark.

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