Breaking News
Comments
Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
Andrzej11
User Rank
CEO
Re: Cost to station owner and to consumer
Andrzej11   7/5/2013 11:42:39 AM
NO RATINGS
Yes, you're right. Those would be the necessary conditions to achieve the maximum range. However EPA's 5-cycle test includes "a cold driving cycle that requires heater use, a hot weather cycle with air conditioning operation, and a high-speed cycle (reaching 80mph) with rapid accelerations." This is certainly more realistic but it does cut the maximum range under ideal conditions by nearly half to 265 miles as I stated.

 

jaybus0
User Rank
CEO
Re: Cost to station owner and to consumer
jaybus0   7/5/2013 8:26:57 AM
NO RATINGS
Yes, but he gives the conditions for the data in the chart. Constant speed, flat gound, no wind, climate control off, 300 lbs cargo including driver, windows closed, new battery pack. In other words, absolutely ideal conditions that in no way resemble real world use.

Andrzej11
User Rank
CEO
Re: Cost to station owner and to consumer
Andrzej11   7/4/2013 12:03:17 PM
NO RATINGS
Actually at a constant 30 mph Musk claims a range of over 425 miles for the Model S with an optimum range of over 450 miles at about 21 mph! A more realistic range under close to normal driving conditions would be close to 265 miles using EPA's 5-cycle test with aggressive driving lowering it even further. See Musk's blog post here, http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_FR/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range

 

jaybus0
User Rank
CEO
Re: Cost to station owner and to consumer
jaybus0   7/4/2013 8:04:00 AM
NO RATINGS
Distribution to the station also has to be accounted for. Battery distribution channels are much easier and cheaper to operatre than even gasoline distribution. However, pipelines and tanker trucks already exist for gasoline. There is next to nothing online for hydrogen and distribution would be very expensive.

 

I also very much doubt the 300 mile range claim. How was this range estimate calculated? On a flat test track at warm temperatures at a constant 30 mph?

Andrzej11
User Rank
CEO
Still Highly Sceptical
Andrzej11   7/3/2013 11:01:43 PM
NO RATINGS
Not a fair comparison. In the demo Musk did not take into consideration the time to arrange payment for the battery swap but he did for filling the car with gas.

Furthermore the economics just don't work. Battery swaps are to cost $60 but if you wait an extra 20 few minutes you get a free "fill-up". I would imagine most average people to which Musk hopes to sell to in a few years would pick the free fill-up every time unless it's an emergency and the economics simply would not be there to just service emergencies.

chanj0
User Rank
Manager
Cost to station owner and to consumer
chanj0   7/3/2013 8:10:54 PM
NO RATINGS
The upfront cost to the station owner seems to be somewhat more reasonable than the upfront cost of a hydrogen fuel station ($500k vs $1M). However, if a battery swap station requires a technician to be on board, the running cost will definitely higher than a gas station today.

 

The cost to consumer  to swap a battery is $60 to $80. Let's assume a fully charge battery is able to move the car by 300 miles. This equates to $0.2 to $0.267 per mile. Given today's average gas price (in Bay Area) is around $4.00. This virtually means, by swapping battery, a tesla will achieve 20mpg for a $60 swap and 15mpg for a $80 swap. Now, owning a Model S for a long distance driving may look less impressive.

 

Battery swapping is an important technology to move electric car forward. The business and operational model have yet been figured out. Until then, fast charging station may still be the key component to drive EV forward. EV may stay as a commute car for a while.



EE Life
Frankenstein's Fix, Teardowns, Sideshows, Design Contests, Reader Content & More
Max Maxfield

Aging Brass: Cow Poop vs. Horse Doo-Doo
Max Maxfield
33 comments
As you may recall, one of the things I want to do with the brass panels I'm using in my Inamorata Prognostication Engine is to make them look really old. Since everything is being mounted ...

EDN Staff

11 Summer Vacation Spots for Engineers
EDN Staff
11 comments
This collection of places from technology history, museums, and modern marvels is a roadmap for an engineering adventure that will take you around the world. Here are just a few spots ...

Glen Chenier

Engineers Solve Analog/Digital Problem, Invent Creative Expletives
Glen Chenier
11 comments
- An analog engineer and a digital engineer join forces, use their respective skills, and pull a few bunnies out of a hat to troubleshoot a system with which they are completely ...

Larry Desjardin

Engineers Should Study Finance: 5 Reasons Why
Larry Desjardin
45 comments
I'm a big proponent of engineers learning financial basics. Why? Because engineers are making decisions all the time, in multiple ways. Having a good financial understanding guides these ...

Flash Poll
Like Us on Facebook
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)