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Etmax
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Re: A graphene ban?
Etmax   7/20/2013 6:52:28 AM
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I'm not sure Graphene's toxicity matters when a finished product it used internally, A device using graphene transistor equivalents will be bonded to a package's leadframe and encapsulated in a resin then mounted to a circuit board and then placed in an enclosure made of biocompatible plastics or titanium with a battery. That will then be placed in the body. It really is only the manufacturing processes and maybe the disposal methods that will be at issue. Disposal may be incineration so won't be a problem.

I did some work that required epoxy potting and we used silica powder as a stabiliser and economy filler and that is dangerous because the dust particles are so fine that they penetrate deep into the lungs. We used dust masks and fans for safety. Once potted there was no risk.


Even modern diesel engines make nanoscale particles of carbon compared to the 15-40um particles of older diesels. It's so fine that there's talk of lung cancer being an issue because it penetrates so deeply into the lungs.


So really what I'm saying is it's only when the materials are freely available as a nanoscale particle that they represent a risk, packaged parts really have no issue.

Look even at Beryllium oxide, used as a die insulator in RF transistors, yet extremely toxic.

R_Colin_Johnson
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Blogger
Re: A graphene ban?
R_Colin_Johnson   7/19/2013 7:36:48 PM
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The toxicity will mostly jeopardize the workers handling the powders, which for chemical vapor deposition (CVD) would be the fab workers in the bunny suits. Once the graphene is fixed in place with CVD on a substrate it should be safe--until the chips end of life when it comes apart in the landfill.

mcgrathdylan
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Blogger
Re: A graphene ban?
mcgrathdylan   7/19/2013 6:38:30 PM
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Is it possible to do that? To come up with better ways of making graphene that can elminate the toxicity identified by the Brown researchers?

chrisnfolsom
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Manager
Re: A graphene ban?
chrisnfolsom   7/19/2013 3:44:59 PM
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Thank you - it's hard to know how materials might affect us as there are so many threats short/long term - we have natural Asbestos in my area, and those prions from BSE and others scare the hell out of me.

Reg the Graphene - is it handled at all in a cell, or does it kill the cell, would the body remove the dead cell with the graphene in it - did I miss that in the article?

If graphine was made without the sharp edges could it be worn or broken/ablated, degraded by U/V or some other process to allow those edges to be recreated?

Whenever I hear about these new materials I alway am reminded of the Ringworld Series of books by Larry Niven.

chanj0
User Rank
Manager
The future of Graphene
chanj0   7/19/2013 2:39:56 PM
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On one hands, there are so many position result of graphene research. Here comes one of them, http://www.techgig.com/tech-news/editors-pick/Graphene-may-boost-internet-speed-100-times-Study-18884


On the other hands, there are potential hazard of the material. There seems to be a long way to walk to make graphene-based device.

Thanks for the hardwork of the researchers and thanks for the info.

DU00000001
User Rank
CEO
Re: A graphene ban?
DU00000001   7/19/2013 1:48:37 PM
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Want to predict the long-term effects ?

As the graphene particles are exposing about the same shape as asbestos fibres: expect similar effects.
Except when they are small enough to be absorbed. Then: switch to the effects of carbon-particulate matter.

Either way: undesirable.

R_Colin_Johnson
User Rank
Blogger
Re: A graphene ban?
R_Colin_Johnson   7/19/2013 1:07:14 PM
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You are right. We will just have to wait and see--both to see whether others confirm these results, and if the cell-piercing can be stopped by engineering better manufacturing methods.

R_Colin_Johnson
User Rank
Blogger
Re: A graphene ban?
R_Colin_Johnson   7/19/2013 1:03:39 PM
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The naturally occuring substance is graphite, which typically has thousands of layers that can be exfoliated.

R_Colin_Johnson
User Rank
Blogger
Re: A graphene ban?
R_Colin_Johnson   7/19/2013 1:01:22 PM
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The short-term effects were bad enough in a petri dish, hopefully we'll never know the long-term effects, but insted will engineering better methods of manfacturing graphene that eliminates its toxicity.

R_Colin_Johnson
User Rank
Blogger
Re: A graphene ban?
R_Colin_Johnson   7/19/2013 12:59:14 PM
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The researcher Agnes Kanes told me that their purpose was to make graphene safe for all types of applications, including medical implants, by engineering their properties to be non-toxic. In order to do so, her team had to first determine how graphene powders disruputs cell functions, which was the sharp corners. Their next step will be to engineer methods of eliminating the sharp corners that are piercing cell walls.

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