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junko.yoshida
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Re: Hackers and test engineers
junko.yoshida   7/26/2013 12:36:56 PM
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well put, DMcCunney. So you are saying in their pursuit of "failure points" in a system, test engineers and hackers are working with a similar mindset. It makes sense. Do you think, then, it is customary within an engineering organization to leverage their own test engineers in finding any weakness of a system that can be hacked?

 

junko.yoshida
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Re: which hacker?
junko.yoshida   7/26/2013 12:29:43 PM
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@caleb, there are many ways to define hackers, and clearly, many people have defined it differently.

But my original intention was, as you can see in the first few graphs of my story:

....Soja and I were discussing issues concerning cars. I was asking him how the best automotive chip suppliers like Freescale can get a few steps ahead of hackers to identify potential security holes.

Soja quipped: "To protect against attacks, you need to think like attackers."


My conversation with this Freescale executive really opened my eyes. For example, established automotive chip suppliers -- usually a full of smart engineers -- do need help from hackers. So that they can think ahead, figuring out which security holes that need to patch in designing their next generation automotive MCU, for example.

In that context, I would like to know whetther design engineers at chip companies can morph themselves into hackers to help that cause, or they are really two different types of people and they probably need to hire external "hackers" to do the job...

DMcCunney
User Rank
CEO
Hackers and test engineers
DMcCunney   7/26/2013 12:18:18 PM
Among engineers who can best think like hackers are those who work on testing, he added.

No surprise.  A friend who is a test engineer said the fundamental distinction between a developer and a test engineer is that a developer assumes the code will work, while a test engineer assumes the code will fail. Indeed, getting it to fail is what a test engineer does.

"Hackers" in the pejorative sense are behaving like test engineers. The test engineer wants to break the code and discover how and why it broke, so the code can be changed to make that failure impossible. The hacker is looking for failure points where code can be exploited for malicious purposes.   The process is similar.  The intended end result is very different.

Caleb Kraft
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which hacker?
Caleb Kraft   7/26/2013 11:10:30 AM
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First, we need to define which "hacker" you're referring to. Initially it seems like you're talking about someone with malicious intent. Frankly, I see no correlation between engineers and hackers in that sense. The equipment may be similar but it is the mallice that is the differentiating factor. 

Toward the middle of the article you're discussing "hackers" in the sense of people who are building things but aren't necessarily fully educated or involved in their career path. This is the one I'd like to focus on. I think many engineers go home at the end of the day and hack. They find a problem and they solve it, and since they're not doing it for work, they aren't following SOP. They're exploring and chasing passions and obsessions, often only for the purpose of doing it. I think engineers can be hackers, and many uneducated hackers can go on to be engineers. 

One interesting thing I've seen is when a hacker is obsessed with a specific technology. They learn everything they can about it, sometimes surpassing professionals in their knowledge. However, they have no interest whatsoever in broadening into all the other subjects that one  would have to master to become a professional. 

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Hacker-developer-engineer
junko.yoshida   7/26/2013 11:09:25 AM
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Hey, Susan, that was a pretty good catch! You could become a Hacker! Thanks. Obviously, I had not logged in when I was trying to post a comment.

Now, as for this engineer vs. hacker quandary, there are many ways to define the two. 

Beyond semantic differences, though, I am curious to find if the reverse -- an engineer turning into a hacker -- is possible. I want examples and how they did it.

 

Susan Rambo
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Blogger
Hacker-developer-engineer
Susan Rambo   7/26/2013 10:37:09 AM
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Thanks, Junko. I love this discussion. In professional engineering, a hack doesn't mean high quality. So maybe it's a pride thing.  BTW, to comment on this article, make sure you log in separately because for some reason this article hangs on the log in screen. Hmmm, unless you have a hack to get around that problem, you'll have to use the workaround for now.

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